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[Music]

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the story of jesus

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is the greatest story ever told that

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helped shape

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leader

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okay enough of that

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that's from the history channel it's a

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documentary

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of course on jesus they run it every

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year around easter

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and it's a way to try and attach some

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history to

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the whole jesus thing in a way that

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really isn't very historical and that

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whole topic is

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particularly relevant today's show i

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mean that's what today's show is about

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i have a christian history smackdown

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with a guy i really like and respect

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attorney turned author and investigative

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journalist william ramsey who was nice

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enough to kind of

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indulge me in this dialogue

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about this history here's a clip

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the most uh quoted and referenced

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christian thinker

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who knew peter and all those other

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people right so uh

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that's also another kind of problem with

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the josephus kind of view

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of the gospels being you know pure

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political document but

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there's some other elements within

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christianity that don't comport with the

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kind of

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superficial surface

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kind of uh generalized doctrines that

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christians and non-christians uh

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perceive as

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being what christianity is about

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yeah i just that winds up sounding a lot

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like gobbledygook

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to me i mean there is no

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just because there is no you know you

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can cherry pick

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out of paul and making cherry pick out

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of

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buddha and i mean again the part about

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christianity that i think a lot of us

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sit back and go

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how are you even processing that is to

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say there's this special time

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there's this special time 2000 years ago

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well what about all the people that came

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before

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welcome to skeptico where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics

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i'm your host alex security today we

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welcome william

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ramsey back to skeptico william is an

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attorney

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researcher and author and

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the creator of william ramsey

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investigates which

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i think is fantastic it's one of my

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go-to

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podcasts that i always listen to and

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william was on a while back and

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we had just a great conversation i

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learned so much

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and if you know this show you know one

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of the things it's really influenced me

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on

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is this kind of deeper understanding of

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what's going on

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in this crossover occult

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reality hollywood wink nod

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and conflicting that or contrasting that

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i should say

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with kind of the atheistic secular

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wokeness well none of that stuff could

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be true

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so we had this super interesting

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conversation

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last time and the books that he's

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written

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children of the beast his book about

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aleister crowley

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abomination about the west memphis 3

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which

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is really kind of an interesting dive

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and

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especially since so many people just

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don't know the facts of that case but

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you do now that i've hammered on them

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for so many times

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and then the prophet of evil aleister

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crowley 9 11

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in the new world order is there anything

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else that you've written

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since then well i've done a lot of uh

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kind of letters you can see it on my

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blog on my website i've

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talked a lot about this group called the

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order of nine angles so more kind of

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occultism

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and uh so some interesting topics

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is that gonna make its way into a book

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is that an upcoming book or anything

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well maybe

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i mean i think there's a lot going on

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there's actually been the nctc the

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national counterterrorism

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center put out a flyer saying the order

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of nine angles is a

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very dangerous group and

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some of their offshoots have been

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prescribed

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it just happened last week in australia

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where

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sauna creek division which has been

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influenced by some of their ideology

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was actually banned as a group in

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australia

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so they have like 16 band groups and

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then sonic group division which is

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kind of uh esoteric or occult neo-nazi

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so uh yeah the order of nine angles

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is a pretty interesting post crowley

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post hitler kind of new religion so i've

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kind of been

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researching that and uh writing about

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that and i've done some

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interviews about that as well i've heard

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a couple of your interviews on that it's

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you know super interesting at one level

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in another level

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and what i was hoping to do in this

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interview is kind of

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crawl way up on top of all that stuff if

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we can

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because that's what really interests me

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is how does this stuff

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really fit together and you know let me

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back up and actually say one other thing

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because the reason i wanted to talk to

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you about the really big picture stuff

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is i wanted to approach the christian

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part of this and i want to do it in a

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way that

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kind of appeals to this kind of

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attorney better call saul sensibility

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if you will that i get from you you know

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like you can talk about all this stuff

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like last time we talked about

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west memphis three and you didn't get

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emotional like pounding on the table and

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you know swinging a bible around or

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anything like that you're just like hey

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i've seen a lot of stuff i know a lot of

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stuff happens

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here's how the facts fall in this case

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and uh you know what i do with it is

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kind of another issue but

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i can separate that from just kind of

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understanding

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do you know what i mean that better call

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saul

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i think that you know my look into the

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west memphis three

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that what sparked my interest was that

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crowley was brought up at trial right so

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i'd already written a book about quotes

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basically a bio about crowley which is

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prophet of evil

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he thought of himself as a prophet of

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new age so when crowley popped up

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then it was kind of like a a riddle

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wrapped in

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enigma in the middle of a labyrinth

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trying to figure out what the actual

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truth of what happened in the west

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memphis 3 actually was

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and luckily all of those court cases are

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available online so i could

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readily access them and the general

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consensus was that

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they were railroaded and they were three

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innocent kids and it was there was kind

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of like nice

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uh sound bites and pr

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tidbits for the public to ingest and i

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believed it for me when i first heard

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they got out

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and it's almost been 10 years i figured

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that there was just some kind of

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mistrial or some kind of problem with

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the case that

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necessitated their release but that

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wasn't the case so then it was like a

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lot of

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figure out what was going on with that

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case

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and the conclusions that i made

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are definitely not um

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publicly popular you know i think that

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they're

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stories

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or many other things that happen in the

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world the kind of

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darker and deeper elements of that were

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overlooked and not

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emphasized in the media or by

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the corporate media or anything like

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that and i think that uh

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that's actually very common in all of

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their kind of superficial analysis of a

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lot of pub

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problems and issues and 911 is a perfect

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example of that is not looking into

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deeper things so from

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if you want to get into the christian

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perspective i think it's important to

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kind of

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parse through my version of christianity

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which is really a bible

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christian i don't know myself a

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protestant or catholic

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uh some people would want to put me in

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those two groups but as a bible

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believing christian i think that

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you have to kind of yeah i think it's

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easier to see kind of darker

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or be more attuned to picking up darker

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currents

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in criminal events or just general

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political events so

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i mean we can talk about the 2020

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election the problems with that

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i mean so from a christian perspective i

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think that it is a definitely spiritual

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perspective i think that

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it makes you more attuned to kind of

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parse out these things that really are

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real

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some of these people people do believe

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in alistar pro the people are masons

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people have see secret agendas there are

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conspiracies

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i mean all politics is conspiratorial i

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would argue from the beginning of time

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in any society so uh

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yeah so i mean i think that that's

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really kind of the gist of my books

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really and if you look at children of

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the beast too that really was an attempt

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to

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take a very broad angle lens at

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political and cultural events and see

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hey some of these people have a cold

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ideas

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some of these people are promoting

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whatever their whole kind of

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in uh outlook is in

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uh in the public timothy larry crowley

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himself so

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um i hope that kind of answers what

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you're trying to get at

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it maybe does and it maybe opens up the

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door for this

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kind of next level stuff that we might

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talk about because

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when i said this uh jimmy mcgill better

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call saul

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sensibility what i think about and if

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people don't have a reference point for

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that

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netflix series then you might be lost in

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this whole kind of thing but

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i just have to believe when i first

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talked to you you know you talked about

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your history

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as an attorney coming up in dc

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and just being

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eyes wide open kind of thing where it's

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00:10:09,030 --> 00:10:06,720
like

289
00:10:11,829 --> 00:10:09,040
oh wow you know there's this whole other

290
00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:11,839
reality of how things really work

291
00:10:15,910 --> 00:10:14,160
and all these people that i'm working

292
00:10:16,949 --> 00:10:15,920
with are kind of living in both

293
00:10:19,350 --> 00:10:16,959
realities

294
00:10:20,230 --> 00:10:19,360
they're living in the reality of how

295
00:10:23,750 --> 00:10:20,240
politics

296
00:10:26,470 --> 00:10:23,760
conspiratorial

297
00:10:28,069 --> 00:10:26,480
it's all you know who's blackmailing who

298
00:10:30,550 --> 00:10:28,079
who has the goods on who

299
00:10:31,350 --> 00:10:30,560
who has leverage on who and then he's an

300
00:10:33,670 --> 00:10:31,360
agent right

301
00:10:35,590 --> 00:10:33,680
who's a member of a police state secret

302
00:10:38,230 --> 00:10:35,600
society secret group

303
00:10:39,110 --> 00:10:38,240
absolutely so so they're living in that

304
00:10:41,190 --> 00:10:39,120
reality

305
00:10:44,310 --> 00:10:41,200
and then they're simultaneously living

306
00:10:47,269 --> 00:10:44,320
in this other reality which is

307
00:10:49,030 --> 00:10:47,279
all the normies and normies just didn't

308
00:10:51,269 --> 00:10:49,040
happen in the last 10 years

309
00:10:52,550 --> 00:10:51,279
normies have been around forever so when

310
00:10:54,949 --> 00:10:52,560
he went home and he

311
00:10:56,870 --> 00:10:54,959
kissed the wife and you know went out

312
00:10:58,710 --> 00:10:56,880
and played ball with the kids you don't

313
00:11:01,990 --> 00:10:58,720
talk about any of that stuff

314
00:11:03,910 --> 00:11:02,000
with 90 of the people 90

315
00:11:05,910 --> 00:11:03,920
of the people you know if you're an

316
00:11:07,269 --> 00:11:05,920
insider in dc

317
00:11:09,750 --> 00:11:07,279
and i think the reason i've referenced

318
00:11:11,509 --> 00:11:09,760
in fact better call saul is

319
00:11:13,590 --> 00:11:11,519
we kind of get that same thing from kind

320
00:11:16,389 --> 00:11:13,600
of jimmy mcgill who's just

321
00:11:17,430 --> 00:11:16,399
i relate from being you know a kid from

322
00:11:20,870 --> 00:11:17,440
chicago

323
00:11:22,550 --> 00:11:20,880
guy

324
00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:22,560
you know you don't want to be a chump

325
00:11:26,710 --> 00:11:24,160
you don't want to be a fool

326
00:11:28,470 --> 00:11:26,720
and that was part of less like of course

327
00:11:30,069 --> 00:11:28,480
this is how things work of course the

328
00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:30,079
political system is corrupt

329
00:11:34,230 --> 00:11:31,920
everyone in chicago knows that you know

330
00:11:36,389 --> 00:11:34,240
richard j daley electing

331
00:11:38,630 --> 00:11:36,399
you know john kennedy of course of

332
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:38,640
course the entire police system is

333
00:11:41,590 --> 00:11:39,360
corrupt

334
00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:41,600
i mean anyone who didn't know that in

335
00:11:43,910 --> 00:11:42,880
chicago

336
00:11:45,269 --> 00:11:43,920
there were a lot of people who didn't

337
00:11:46,069 --> 00:11:45,279
know it but they were just kind of on

338
00:11:50,629 --> 00:11:46,079
the outside

339
00:11:53,269 --> 00:11:50,639
so you get what i'm saying in terms of

340
00:11:54,550 --> 00:11:53,279
that sensibility and you bring that to

341
00:11:56,150 --> 00:11:54,560
the table

342
00:11:57,910 --> 00:11:56,160
and but then there's a couple of

343
00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:57,920
different ways to divide that so

344
00:12:03,269 --> 00:12:00,000
you know one you're talking about just

345
00:12:05,030 --> 00:12:03,279
stuff that happens it's 911 or the 2020

346
00:12:05,509 --> 00:12:05,040
election or the pandemic and all that

347
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:05,519
sort of thing

348
00:12:08,790 --> 00:12:08,240
okay but then you're also breaking it

349
00:12:12,310 --> 00:12:08,800
down

350
00:12:14,710 --> 00:12:12,320
on the spiritual side which is where

351
00:12:15,829 --> 00:12:14,720
i think it's kind of a harder for a lot

352
00:12:18,949 --> 00:12:15,839
of us

353
00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:18,959
when we encounter when you say i'm a

354
00:12:22,629 --> 00:12:21,600
christian or i'm not catholic protestant

355
00:12:25,110 --> 00:12:22,639
i'm just bible but

356
00:12:27,030 --> 00:12:25,120
it's like whoa wait a minute isn't that

357
00:12:28,069 --> 00:12:27,040
the same kind of thing in terms of how

358
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:28,079
are you parsing

359
00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:31,839
no that reality right no i mean it's a

360
00:12:35,670 --> 00:12:32,800
good question i think it's

361
00:12:36,470 --> 00:12:35,680
like once you're even within christendom

362
00:12:39,430 --> 00:12:36,480
it's like what

363
00:12:40,870 --> 00:12:39,440
are you like what how much do you leave

364
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:40,880
how much have you read

365
00:12:44,470 --> 00:12:43,600
what uh what books are you reading

366
00:12:46,550 --> 00:12:44,480
what's your

367
00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:46,560
denomination you know you can say that

368
00:12:49,829 --> 00:12:48,079
there's four or five major christian

369
00:12:52,870 --> 00:12:49,839
denominations

370
00:12:55,990 --> 00:12:52,880
um so there's only one

371
00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:56,000
it all started from one right well this

372
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:57,920
is true but there's definitely branches

373
00:13:00,230 --> 00:12:58,320
i think

374
00:13:02,790 --> 00:13:00,240
you know almost any major religion even

375
00:13:05,670 --> 00:13:02,800
judaism which is fairly small

376
00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:05,680
compared to cat you know chris the large

377
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:07,760
broad tent of christianity or islam

378
00:13:12,629 --> 00:13:10,560
all have variants and distinctions and

379
00:13:15,269 --> 00:13:12,639
shia and sunni

380
00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:15,279
christianity is catholic and protestant

381
00:13:18,150 --> 00:13:16,720
at a very general level so it's really

382
00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:18,160
what you believe what do these people

383
00:13:20,790 --> 00:13:19,120
teaching you

384
00:13:23,269 --> 00:13:20,800
or do you go back to the original text

385
00:13:24,550 --> 00:13:23,279
and i think that that's really the key

386
00:13:26,069 --> 00:13:24,560
element to really understanding

387
00:13:27,269 --> 00:13:26,079
christianity is really to go to the

388
00:13:29,350 --> 00:13:27,279
original

389
00:13:31,509 --> 00:13:29,360
gospels before the threesome there are

390
00:13:33,590 --> 00:13:31,519
no there are no original there are no

391
00:13:35,670 --> 00:13:33,600
original gospels i mean if we just

392
00:13:37,110 --> 00:13:35,680
from his from a straight up historical

393
00:13:37,750 --> 00:13:37,120
standpoint and that's what i'm saying

394
00:13:39,189 --> 00:13:37,760
it's like

395
00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:39,199
what are you gonna do go back to the

396
00:13:43,590 --> 00:13:41,680
council of nicaea and constantine

397
00:13:45,350 --> 00:13:43,600
who is one of the most corrupt

398
00:13:47,829 --> 00:13:45,360
despicable people

399
00:13:49,110 --> 00:13:47,839
in history you know he murders his son

400
00:13:50,870 --> 00:13:49,120
because he thinks

401
00:13:52,870 --> 00:13:50,880
he's [\h__\h] his wife and then he

402
00:13:56,629 --> 00:13:52,880
murders his wife when he finds out

403
00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:56,639
she said i mean this is the most

404
00:13:59,750 --> 00:13:58,560
yeah he's a very opportunistic christian

405
00:14:01,509 --> 00:13:59,760
right now he's

406
00:14:02,870 --> 00:14:01,519
he's not a christian very politically

407
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:02,880
well that's what he came out as

408
00:14:07,030 --> 00:14:05,600
i mean he's supposed to be a founder of

409
00:14:07,750 --> 00:14:07,040
the christian church or like one of the

410
00:14:10,230 --> 00:14:07,760
original

411
00:14:12,310 --> 00:14:10,240
no he but he's not william he's he's not

412
00:14:13,590 --> 00:14:12,320
i mean any any kind of fair reading of

413
00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:13,600
that history

414
00:14:19,990 --> 00:14:17,199
he he never really changes his

415
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:20,000
kind of cultish pagan you know i mean he

416
00:14:24,310 --> 00:14:22,079
still has it on the coins and he's still

417
00:14:25,350 --> 00:14:24,320
it's it's just it just looks like a

418
00:14:26,870 --> 00:14:25,360
total sham

419
00:14:29,750 --> 00:14:26,880
the part of that history that i don't

420
00:14:33,430 --> 00:14:29,760
understand that christians don't get

421
00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:33,440
is that we're all living

422
00:14:40,310 --> 00:14:37,440
rich complicated spiritual lives

423
00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:40,320
and they show up all over the place for

424
00:14:45,189 --> 00:14:42,880
damien echols from west memphis three

425
00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:45,199
we don't know what his deal is but we

426
00:14:48,150 --> 00:14:46,560
know he has a rich

427
00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:48,160
spiritual life and he's trying to

428
00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:50,399
connect with aleister crowley and demons

429
00:14:53,509 --> 00:14:52,000
and this and that but he probably is

430
00:14:54,470 --> 00:14:53,519
also waking up at two o'clock in the

431
00:14:56,150 --> 00:14:54,480
morning going

432
00:14:58,389 --> 00:14:56,160
oh my god you know what is this going to

433
00:14:59,110 --> 00:14:58,399
do to my soul because everyone has those

434
00:15:01,750 --> 00:14:59,120
same

435
00:15:02,710 --> 00:15:01,760
kind of questions constantine certainly

436
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:02,720
doesn't look like

437
00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:05,120
saint constantine looks like a very

438
00:15:07,829 --> 00:15:05,920
human guy

439
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:07,839
you know who's worried about his wife

440
00:15:11,189 --> 00:15:09,440
[\h__\h] around worried about his son

441
00:15:12,629 --> 00:15:11,199
[\h__\h] around i mean he doesn't look

442
00:15:15,829 --> 00:15:12,639
like he's uh

443
00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:15,839
had some great spiritual experience with

444
00:15:18,949 --> 00:15:17,360
jesus to me

445
00:15:21,269 --> 00:15:18,959
well he might but i mean at least the

446
00:15:23,829 --> 00:15:21,279
the common historical story

447
00:15:24,710 --> 00:15:23,839
is that he was going into battle and

448
00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:24,720
then

449
00:15:28,550 --> 00:15:26,480
it's [\h__\h] you know change well

450
00:15:30,470 --> 00:15:28,560
that's what i'm saying well at least

451
00:15:32,470 --> 00:15:30,480
that that is that the story is that that

452
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:32,480
is how he became a christian so

453
00:15:35,509 --> 00:15:33,360
therefore

454
00:15:37,269 --> 00:15:35,519
he was one of the founders of that at

455
00:15:39,590 --> 00:15:37,279
least the 3000 one of the political

456
00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:39,600
founders of christianity

457
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:41,680
i don't i don't see him as like a great

458
00:15:45,749 --> 00:15:42,800
religious figure

459
00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:45,759
not like maybe some of these other post

460
00:15:50,069 --> 00:15:47,600
like paul for example but

461
00:15:51,749 --> 00:15:50,079
uh at least that's the way he's regarded

462
00:15:53,910 --> 00:15:51,759
i think public

463
00:15:54,870 --> 00:15:53,920
constantine but like i agree i think

464
00:15:57,269 --> 00:15:54,880
that he

465
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:57,279
there's tons of people who say they're

466
00:16:00,550 --> 00:15:58,560
christians who

467
00:16:02,150 --> 00:16:00,560
operate without adhering to the

468
00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:02,160
fundamental tenets and that's the same

469
00:16:05,670 --> 00:16:04,160
from all religions i would actually

470
00:16:07,430 --> 00:16:05,680
posit and argue that a lot of these

471
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:07,440
political at least in the united states

472
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:08,560
for sure

473
00:16:11,590 --> 00:16:10,800
these guys who are the presidents they

474
00:16:14,069 --> 00:16:11,600
just

475
00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:14,079
give lip service to christianity they

476
00:16:17,829 --> 00:16:16,480
don't really believe it

477
00:16:19,990 --> 00:16:17,839
they shouldn't believe it because it's

478
00:16:21,670 --> 00:16:20,000
not it's not real it's just something

479
00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:21,680
that was invented

480
00:16:25,670 --> 00:16:23,519
okay well that's your opinion so you

481
00:16:27,829 --> 00:16:25,680
think that the gospels themselves were

482
00:16:29,910 --> 00:16:27,839
something written by what flavian or

483
00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:29,920
some kind of uh that's the argument

484
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:31,839
here's where i'm coming at from that

485
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:33,920
he's like

486
00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:36,720
i come at it back to where we started

487
00:16:38,949 --> 00:16:37,120
like

488
00:16:41,269 --> 00:16:38,959
you know you want you don't want to be a

489
00:16:45,110 --> 00:16:41,279
chump right that's the better call saul

490
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:45,120
sensibility so when somebody tells you

491
00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:47,920
you know hey those guys in west memphis

492
00:16:51,670 --> 00:16:49,440
three

493
00:16:53,670 --> 00:16:51,680
they're really great guys who just got

494
00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:53,680
railroaded out of town for

495
00:16:59,509 --> 00:16:56,880
wearing black t-shirts and then you read

496
00:17:01,829 --> 00:16:59,519
in and you come across the data

497
00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:01,839
one after another after another and you

498
00:17:06,470 --> 00:17:04,319
start putting the pieces together you go

499
00:17:08,309 --> 00:17:06,480
well that's just [\h__\h] i don't know

500
00:17:10,470 --> 00:17:08,319
what the truth is like i'm saying

501
00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:10,480
i don't know what damian eccles

502
00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:12,720
spiritual experience

503
00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:16,079
spiritual reality is but i'm pretty sure

504
00:17:19,829 --> 00:17:19,280
it ain't what he said it is so that's

505
00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:19,839
where

506
00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:22,000
that's right written some stuff about it

507
00:17:27,510 --> 00:17:24,319
sure so i think you're trying to make an

508
00:17:29,830 --> 00:17:27,520
analogy between the

509
00:17:31,029 --> 00:17:29,840
the perception of reality based upon

510
00:17:32,710 --> 00:17:31,039
what people have about

511
00:17:34,950 --> 00:17:32,720
damien equals and then about

512
00:17:37,590 --> 00:17:34,960
christianity so like you're

513
00:17:40,150 --> 00:17:37,600
you're making it to not be a chump and

514
00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:40,160
believe in christianity is that correct

515
00:17:46,070 --> 00:17:43,200
where i was really going was so

516
00:17:47,350 --> 00:17:46,080
if you don't want to be a chump then

517
00:17:49,830 --> 00:17:47,360
where do you start

518
00:17:51,750 --> 00:17:49,840
you know and like one of the places i'd

519
00:17:52,310 --> 00:17:51,760
start is like that history that i just

520
00:17:53,909 --> 00:17:52,320
said

521
00:17:55,909 --> 00:17:53,919
for any christian who can't resolve that

522
00:17:57,669 --> 00:17:55,919
history you know

523
00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:57,679
full stop you better go figure out what

524
00:18:02,230 --> 00:18:00,240
the [\h__\h] why you believe in this church

525
00:18:03,909 --> 00:18:02,240
that was founded by constantine

526
00:18:05,270 --> 00:18:03,919
when constantine was this kind of

527
00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:05,280
despicable

528
00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:08,480
mover and shaker kind of total

529
00:18:11,669 --> 00:18:11,039
agent of some kind of cult thing so that

530
00:18:13,270 --> 00:18:11,679
that

531
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:13,280
because you can come through the history

532
00:18:16,789 --> 00:18:14,799
of christianity the same thing look at

533
00:18:18,789 --> 00:18:16,799
the catholic church or alexander

534
00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:18,799
the city i'm just saying sir right the

535
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:20,240
popes are not clean

536
00:18:24,230 --> 00:18:22,160
right so i'm just saying i'm just saying

537
00:18:26,390 --> 00:18:24,240
as a christian church today right

538
00:18:27,669 --> 00:18:26,400
as a christian i would think that would

539
00:18:29,510 --> 00:18:27,679
be something

540
00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:29,520
because i was brought up christian i was

541
00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:31,200
brought up greek orthodox

542
00:18:34,390 --> 00:18:33,280
like right so a lot of people brought up

543
00:18:35,110 --> 00:18:34,400
in the church and then they start

544
00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:35,120
running into

545
00:18:38,470 --> 00:18:37,120
these kind of things and they feel a

546
00:18:41,350 --> 00:18:38,480
need to resolve them

547
00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:41,360
but the the other way so that's one

548
00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:42,400
thing i think you have to

549
00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:45,120
as a christian you have to resolve the

550
00:18:48,390 --> 00:18:46,640
history and the history is

551
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:48,400
irresolvable i mean you can't right you

552
00:18:52,230 --> 00:18:50,480
can't but you have to look at it no

553
00:18:53,750 --> 00:18:52,240
question i don't think there's any doubt

554
00:18:55,750 --> 00:18:53,760
about that

555
00:18:57,110 --> 00:18:55,760
so the so then the crusades are loaded

556
00:18:59,190 --> 00:18:57,120
you know the crusades are loaded with

557
00:19:02,150 --> 00:18:59,200
tons of problems there were real mind

558
00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:02,160
the crusades i think the last crusade

559
00:19:05,909 --> 00:19:04,480
was really kind of a population control

560
00:19:07,830 --> 00:19:05,919
crusade where they wanted to take the

561
00:19:09,029 --> 00:19:07,840
excess population out of europe and ship

562
00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:09,039
them out somewhere so they took all the

563
00:19:12,390 --> 00:19:11,039
poor people and got rid of them so what

564
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:12,400
it really wasn't really even have

565
00:19:17,669 --> 00:19:14,640
anything to do with uh muhammad

566
00:19:19,029 --> 00:19:17,679
or the muslims so there's a lot of

567
00:19:20,710 --> 00:19:19,039
things within christian i mean you can

568
00:19:22,230 --> 00:19:20,720
look at the hundred years war between

569
00:19:24,230 --> 00:19:22,240
the protestants and the catholics or

570
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:24,240
just some of the most brutal

571
00:19:28,470 --> 00:19:27,200
non-christian conflicts ever and tons of

572
00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:28,480
you know

573
00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:30,000
reasons for the creation of the united

574
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:31,600
states and all this other stuff a lot of

575
00:19:36,390 --> 00:19:33,360
it came out of these

576
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:36,400
conflicts within these churches

577
00:19:40,310 --> 00:19:38,880
so uh there's a lot of problems and a

578
00:19:43,270 --> 00:19:40,320
lot of christian problems like

579
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:43,280
justifications for racism slavery

580
00:19:47,350 --> 00:19:44,559
are the people who've referenced the

581
00:19:49,430 --> 00:19:47,360
bible so there's a lot of problems there

582
00:19:51,750 --> 00:19:49,440
it doesn't it's i think you can

583
00:19:53,669 --> 00:19:51,760
differentiate it from the original texts

584
00:19:55,909 --> 00:19:53,679
and the original gospels but

585
00:19:57,590 --> 00:19:55,919
some people can't i i don't have a

586
00:19:58,950 --> 00:19:57,600
problem doing that

587
00:20:00,870 --> 00:19:58,960
i mean i think that that's really it so

588
00:20:02,789 --> 00:20:00,880
some people can apply to me or just

589
00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:02,799
general christians hey

590
00:20:06,070 --> 00:20:04,320
look what the catholic church has done

591
00:20:09,190 --> 00:20:06,080
if you reject that

592
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:09,200
then how can that affect your

593
00:20:15,590 --> 00:20:12,240
concept of the original you know

594
00:20:17,430 --> 00:20:15,600
gospel texts well because i mean

595
00:20:18,710 --> 00:20:17,440
the argument and then we can let it go

596
00:20:20,149 --> 00:20:18,720
because there's other more interesting

597
00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:20,159
stuff to talk about

598
00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:23,360
is there is no original

599
00:20:26,549 --> 00:20:25,280
all right well that that's where you and

600
00:20:28,789 --> 00:20:26,559
i are having i will

601
00:20:30,470 --> 00:20:28,799
respond you can't even you you can't

602
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:30,480
even i mean that's

603
00:20:33,669 --> 00:20:32,080
i don't know how you can argue that i

604
00:20:34,870 --> 00:20:33,679
mean again

605
00:20:36,950 --> 00:20:34,880
here's another thing if you want to look

606
00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:36,960
at history we know that i think was it

607
00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:38,159
eusebius

608
00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:40,480
knew somebody who knew peter and rome so

609
00:20:44,149 --> 00:20:42,320
these people who have met paul

610
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:44,159
and they're in the history texts these

611
00:20:48,549 --> 00:20:46,240
are legit history texts

612
00:20:50,149 --> 00:20:48,559
that people knew these people existed

613
00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:50,159
and these are outside of apocryphal

614
00:20:54,549 --> 00:20:51,200
texts these are like

615
00:20:56,789 --> 00:20:54,559
legit biblical texts so i think that

616
00:20:58,390 --> 00:20:56,799
kind of uh the idea that the gospels

617
00:20:59,590 --> 00:20:58,400
were invented two thousand years out of

618
00:21:02,390 --> 00:20:59,600
old cloth

619
00:21:03,830 --> 00:21:02,400
have a lot of problems and also there's

620
00:21:04,870 --> 00:21:03,840
tons of art i'm saying that i'm not

621
00:21:06,549 --> 00:21:04,880
saying i'm not saying

622
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:06,559
i don't know invented about a whole

623
00:21:12,149 --> 00:21:08,559
cloth i mean

624
00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:12,159
what what what it looks like i mean

625
00:21:18,870 --> 00:21:16,000
what do you do with the nakamati library

626
00:21:20,230 --> 00:21:18,880
i mean right you just can't you can't

627
00:21:23,029 --> 00:21:20,240
resolve that with

628
00:21:24,149 --> 00:21:23,039
quote-unquote the gospels right because

629
00:21:27,029 --> 00:21:24,159
what you have is this

630
00:21:28,789 --> 00:21:27,039
all this collection of writings and all

631
00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:28,799
these different translations and all

632
00:21:32,149 --> 00:21:30,000
these different historical

633
00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:32,159
accounts without even getting into the

634
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:34,320
problem of josephus you know which is

635
00:21:39,190 --> 00:21:37,120
enormous because he's just completely a

636
00:21:41,350 --> 00:21:39,200
propaganda agent for the romans

637
00:21:43,270 --> 00:21:41,360
so you just look at that i'm saying from

638
00:21:44,789 --> 00:21:43,280
a big picture you just step back and you

639
00:21:47,990 --> 00:21:44,799
say

640
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:48,000
okay there's some history there but i

641
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:49,200
cannot

642
00:21:52,070 --> 00:21:51,200
see this isn't the only history so i

643
00:21:53,750 --> 00:21:52,080
mean if you're looking through it

644
00:21:55,350 --> 00:21:53,760
through the lens of merely josephus who

645
00:21:57,029 --> 00:21:55,360
actually had kind of an admirable

646
00:21:59,029 --> 00:21:57,039
reference i think one

647
00:22:01,510 --> 00:21:59,039
full paragraph about jesus about he was

648
00:22:04,070 --> 00:22:01,520
a miracle worker and a great man

649
00:22:04,789 --> 00:22:04,080
yeah that that so absolutely that

650
00:22:07,750 --> 00:22:04,799
reference is

651
00:22:08,470 --> 00:22:07,760
absolutely inconsistent with the body of

652
00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:08,480
his you know

653
00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:10,240
i agree with that it's actually stands

654
00:22:14,470 --> 00:22:12,000
out it's like an aside his real

655
00:22:15,190 --> 00:22:14,480
interest is the history of the jews and

656
00:22:16,630 --> 00:22:15,200
if so

657
00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:16,640
it was probably an interpolation it was

658
00:22:21,110 --> 00:22:18,240
probably something later on

659
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:21,120
that someone added in because josephus

660
00:22:24,789 --> 00:22:22,080
was

661
00:22:25,750 --> 00:22:24,799
the guy so let's have him say this stuff

662
00:22:29,029 --> 00:22:25,760
about

663
00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:29,039
jesus i mean that's the the natural

664
00:22:32,149 --> 00:22:30,720
conclusion i guess if you're going to be

665
00:22:33,590 --> 00:22:32,159
at all if you're going to be the better

666
00:22:36,390 --> 00:22:33,600
call saul guy you're going to be

667
00:22:37,110 --> 00:22:36,400
hey maybe i don't think so i don't agree

668
00:22:40,390 --> 00:22:37,120
with you

669
00:22:42,310 --> 00:22:40,400
that you're saying that some

670
00:22:44,549 --> 00:22:42,320
you're just assuming that somebody in

671
00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:44,559
history went in and re-edited

672
00:22:49,029 --> 00:22:47,520
josephus's text that's good that's the

673
00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:49,039
general consensus

674
00:22:53,350 --> 00:22:52,320
among people well generally of people

675
00:22:56,149 --> 00:22:53,360
who've really

676
00:22:57,270 --> 00:22:56,159
well again so look like i'm saying like

677
00:22:58,789 --> 00:22:57,280
we can't argue that

678
00:23:01,110 --> 00:22:58,799
people argue that all the time and get

679
00:23:03,190 --> 00:23:01,120
to what i'm just saying is

680
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:03,200
from uh from uh this is how the world

681
00:23:08,549 --> 00:23:06,400
works its conspiratorial standpoint

682
00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:08,559
to me that's not even a hard one because

683
00:23:13,549 --> 00:23:11,520
you look at all of josephus's writings

684
00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:13,559
they would all be completely

685
00:23:16,950 --> 00:23:14,960
inconsistent

686
00:23:19,110 --> 00:23:16,960
with that one paragraph that one

687
00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:19,120
paragraph if that if he wrote that

688
00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:21,600
you could throw out the thousands and

689
00:23:26,070 --> 00:23:23,760
thousands of other pages that he wrote

690
00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:26,080
well i disagree with that too because he

691
00:23:29,110 --> 00:23:27,600
wrote the history of the jews which a

692
00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:29,120
lot of it's very consistent with old

693
00:23:32,710 --> 00:23:30,480
testament history

694
00:23:34,950 --> 00:23:32,720
and they talked a lot about people who

695
00:23:36,070 --> 00:23:34,960
um we know from history all the roman

696
00:23:40,070 --> 00:23:36,080
emperors and the

697
00:23:42,789 --> 00:23:40,080
uh who was it uh justin who was

698
00:23:44,470 --> 00:23:42,799
who was who was the flavians it was uh

699
00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:44,480
titus and his father

700
00:23:53,830 --> 00:23:51,750
titus and then domitian and yeah right

701
00:23:55,669 --> 00:23:53,840
but but i mean you have all that stuff

702
00:23:58,230 --> 00:23:55,679
earlier i mean they found

703
00:23:59,909 --> 00:23:58,240
i think they've even found um pontius

704
00:24:04,390 --> 00:23:59,919
pilate's name

705
00:24:06,549 --> 00:24:04,400
in latin in in somewhere in judea

706
00:24:07,430 --> 00:24:06,559
so i mean there's differences there that

707
00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:07,440
keep popping up

708
00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:09,840
that kind of verify some of that story

709
00:24:15,510 --> 00:24:12,480
that's told in the gospels right

710
00:24:16,950 --> 00:24:15,520
yeah but it's i mean again

711
00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:16,960
if you don't see if you don't see

712
00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:20,320
josephus as completely a propaganda

713
00:24:25,029 --> 00:24:22,480
agent for the romans

714
00:24:25,669 --> 00:24:25,039
it you you just haven't read josephus

715
00:24:27,430 --> 00:24:25,679
because look like

716
00:24:28,710 --> 00:24:27,440
when i said i've never had josephus i

717
00:24:31,830 --> 00:24:28,720
have read josephus

718
00:24:32,149 --> 00:24:31,840
i've actually recorded some stuff i know

719
00:24:36,390 --> 00:24:32,159
but

720
00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:36,400
i i don't see him uh he's obviously a

721
00:24:41,110 --> 00:24:39,520
uh a house flavian like his doc he's

722
00:24:41,909 --> 00:24:41,120
part of that dynasty of course he's

723
00:24:43,510 --> 00:24:41,919
gonna tell

724
00:24:46,310 --> 00:24:43,520
the story of the romans from the roman

725
00:24:47,990 --> 00:24:46,320
perspective he actually i mean do you

726
00:24:50,549 --> 00:24:48,000
think that

727
00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:50,559
the like what he retells of him giving a

728
00:24:55,029 --> 00:24:52,640
speech to the uh

729
00:24:57,110 --> 00:24:55,039
jerusalem inhabitants who are who have

730
00:24:57,750 --> 00:24:57,120
been captured with by the romans by a

731
00:24:59,510 --> 00:24:57,760
huge

732
00:25:01,190 --> 00:24:59,520
you know blockade do you think that

733
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:01,200
that's all fake

734
00:25:07,510 --> 00:25:04,799
once somebody is shown to be fake

735
00:25:09,190 --> 00:25:07,520
once somebody is shown to be an agent a

736
00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:09,200
disinformation agent

737
00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:12,080
then i i just don't know why we would

738
00:25:15,590 --> 00:25:12,880
follow him

739
00:25:17,269 --> 00:25:15,600
and try and parse out you know what's

740
00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:17,279
true and what's not

741
00:25:23,110 --> 00:25:19,279
he's clear you know here's the here's

742
00:25:26,470 --> 00:25:24,789
i've said this to so many people so many

743
00:25:29,750 --> 00:25:26,480
christians they've never really

744
00:25:31,750 --> 00:25:29,760
read uh josephus let me pull i have

745
00:25:33,269 --> 00:25:31,760
i'm telling you i've read josephus well

746
00:25:34,789 --> 00:25:33,279
i haven't read the full history of the

747
00:25:37,590 --> 00:25:34,799
jews but i've heard i've read

748
00:25:38,310 --> 00:25:37,600
the history of the wars of the jews

749
00:25:39,590 --> 00:25:38,320
which was

750
00:25:42,149 --> 00:25:39,600
you know the whole retelling of the

751
00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:42,159
sacking of jerusalem in 70 a.d

752
00:25:47,590 --> 00:25:45,360
so let me uh

753
00:25:48,870 --> 00:25:47,600
pull up what i sent you so this is uh

754
00:25:50,710 --> 00:25:48,880
war of the jews

755
00:25:52,350 --> 00:25:50,720
josephus is one of his first best

756
00:25:57,190 --> 00:25:52,360
sellers

757
00:26:00,070 --> 00:25:57,200
6.5.4 so he says but what more

758
00:26:02,549 --> 00:26:00,080
than all else incited them to war that

759
00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:02,559
has incited the jews to war

760
00:26:07,110 --> 00:26:06,080
was an ambiguous oracle likewise found

761
00:26:09,190 --> 00:26:07,120
in their sacred

762
00:26:11,830 --> 00:26:09,200
scriptures to the effect that at the

763
00:26:13,269 --> 00:26:11,840
time one from their country would become

764
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:13,279
ruler of the world

765
00:26:16,549 --> 00:26:15,600
he's talking this kind of third person

766
00:26:19,830 --> 00:26:16,559
about the jews

767
00:26:22,789 --> 00:26:19,840
of which he is one he not only is one

768
00:26:24,310 --> 00:26:22,799
but he claims to be kind of a super jew

769
00:26:27,590 --> 00:26:24,320
and by that he said

770
00:26:28,789 --> 00:26:27,600
i was so jewish from the time that i was

771
00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:28,799
brought up and i was so

772
00:26:33,510 --> 00:26:31,760
learned in the law that at 14 years old

773
00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:33,520
i went to the temple and i was

774
00:26:37,110 --> 00:26:35,760
you know kind of talking down to the

775
00:26:37,669 --> 00:26:37,120
guys in the temple and telling him

776
00:26:39,990 --> 00:26:37,679
what's up

777
00:26:41,830 --> 00:26:40,000
you know of course this is his account

778
00:26:43,510 --> 00:26:41,840
which is completely ridiculous

779
00:26:45,830 --> 00:26:43,520
and it is also even that point you know

780
00:26:47,990 --> 00:26:45,840
if you talk to

781
00:26:49,029 --> 00:26:48,000
jews who are really scholarly about this

782
00:26:51,110 --> 00:26:49,039
they'll say well this

783
00:26:52,950 --> 00:26:51,120
he contradicts himself because later in

784
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:52,960
his writings he doesn't seem to know the

785
00:26:57,510 --> 00:26:55,200
law very well the jewish law so

786
00:26:58,470 --> 00:26:57,520
he isn't the super too that he says but

787
00:27:00,549 --> 00:26:58,480
anyways

788
00:27:02,470 --> 00:27:00,559
here is his big pronouncement he says

789
00:27:03,269 --> 00:27:02,480
you know what really incited these jews

790
00:27:07,110 --> 00:27:03,279
you know what really

791
00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:07,120
drove him crazy was that there was this

792
00:27:11,350 --> 00:27:10,080
sacred scripture that told them that at

793
00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:11,360
some time

794
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:14,240
someone would rise up from their ranks

795
00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:14,880
and become

796
00:27:19,029 --> 00:27:17,279
ruler of the world and here's what he

797
00:27:23,510 --> 00:27:19,039
says it's important

798
00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:23,520
the oracle however in reality

799
00:27:31,110 --> 00:27:28,320
signified the sovereignty of vespasian

800
00:27:33,110 --> 00:27:31,120
right who we're just saying is the the

801
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:33,120
roman general who's just kicking their

802
00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:34,080
ass and killing

803
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:37,440
them and becomes caesar who was

804
00:27:42,230 --> 00:27:38,480
proclaimed

805
00:27:44,070 --> 00:27:42,240
emperor on jewish soil so he says here's

806
00:27:47,190 --> 00:27:44,080
josephus saying you know what

807
00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:47,200
i'm a super jew so trust me but

808
00:27:51,269 --> 00:27:49,120
here's how our whole thing here's how

809
00:27:54,389 --> 00:27:51,279
our whole religious tradition

810
00:27:56,310 --> 00:27:54,399
is based we we had it all wrong it

811
00:27:59,590 --> 00:27:56,320
really wasn't about the messiah

812
00:28:01,669 --> 00:27:59,600
it was about vespasian and where we

813
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:01,679
where we went wrong was in reading the

814
00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:03,600
oracle because what it did what the

815
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:04,960
oracle didn't see

816
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:07,840
is that when he was proclaimed emperor

817
00:28:11,990 --> 00:28:09,360
which is just kind of a little

818
00:28:12,630 --> 00:28:12,000
subtle fact that he was proclaimed

819
00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:12,640
emperor

820
00:28:18,950 --> 00:28:15,760
in rome but he was on jewish soil

821
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:18,960
and that's how he kind of is trying to

822
00:28:22,870 --> 00:28:22,480
sell this grand conspiratorial nonsense

823
00:28:25,510 --> 00:28:22,880
to

824
00:28:26,149 --> 00:28:25,520
his jewish people that that's what makes

825
00:28:30,070 --> 00:28:26,159
him

826
00:28:33,269 --> 00:28:30,080
the guy this is so clearly

827
00:28:37,669 --> 00:28:33,279
uh [\h__\h] propaganda i

828
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:37,679
i just yeah but i mean

829
00:28:42,389 --> 00:28:40,080
so josephus is out the window you can't

830
00:28:45,350 --> 00:28:42,399
you can never use josephus again

831
00:28:46,710 --> 00:28:45,360
he's completely an agent of the romans

832
00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:46,720
well i agree with that but i think that

833
00:28:49,669 --> 00:28:47,840
you have to look at everything in

834
00:28:50,950 --> 00:28:49,679
context i think you're in context is

835
00:28:53,029 --> 00:28:50,960
important but it's also kind of a

836
00:28:54,630 --> 00:28:53,039
logical fallacy if somebody

837
00:28:56,070 --> 00:28:54,640
is writing something that everything

838
00:28:59,110 --> 00:28:56,080
else that they've ever written

839
00:29:02,630 --> 00:28:59,120
is nolan boyd i mean it's kind of like a

840
00:29:04,389 --> 00:29:02,640
extrapolation from one well it's not so

841
00:29:05,830 --> 00:29:04,399
i mean i think that a lot of his stuff

842
00:29:06,549 --> 00:29:05,840
at least the history of the jews

843
00:29:10,070 --> 00:29:06,559
comports

844
00:29:12,230 --> 00:29:10,080
and follows old testament

845
00:29:14,549 --> 00:29:12,240
writings right i mean he's talking about

846
00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:14,559
moses he's talking about

847
00:29:23,590 --> 00:29:19,600
abraham he he retells the story of uh

848
00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:23,600
you know i think genesis so

849
00:29:28,389 --> 00:29:26,720
from a different world this man see

850
00:29:29,750 --> 00:29:28,399
like this is what gets back to the first

851
00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:29,760
part of what we're saying

852
00:29:35,110 --> 00:29:32,880
it's like you're in dc and

853
00:29:36,950 --> 00:29:35,120
you're now being woken up to how this

854
00:29:40,070 --> 00:29:36,960
[\h__\h] works right

855
00:29:43,029 --> 00:29:40,080
well of course 90 of it is

856
00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:43,039
90 of it is totally logical and flies

857
00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:43,840
right

858
00:29:47,750 --> 00:29:46,080
it's the the edges it's the vince

859
00:29:51,269 --> 00:29:47,760
monster case that you're talking about

860
00:29:53,110 --> 00:29:51,279
i mean 90 of it looks legit except oh

861
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:53,120
they forgot to put the gun in the

862
00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:55,440
correct hand and it doesn't fly

863
00:29:59,190 --> 00:29:57,840
it's not like the whole thing is just

864
00:30:01,350 --> 00:29:59,200
completely made up

865
00:30:02,789 --> 00:30:01,360
you only need to make up ten percent of

866
00:30:04,389 --> 00:30:02,799
it and you don't if you make a

867
00:30:05,909 --> 00:30:04,399
if you make up the whole thing it's

868
00:30:10,470 --> 00:30:05,919
exposed as a fraud

869
00:30:16,710 --> 00:30:13,830
okay you're saying that because

870
00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:16,720
josephus had problems that you're

871
00:30:20,710 --> 00:30:18,240
noticing therefore

872
00:30:24,149 --> 00:30:20,720
the whole story of the gospels is a lie

873
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:24,159
is that where you're kind of intimating

874
00:30:27,990 --> 00:30:27,120
well well slow down here for a second

875
00:30:29,990 --> 00:30:28,000
well let's get

876
00:30:31,590 --> 00:30:30,000
this i mean that's well no slow down for

877
00:30:33,110 --> 00:30:31,600
a second because this is

878
00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:33,120
see this is like one of those things

879
00:30:36,149 --> 00:30:34,880
this is like what what would drive you

880
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:36,159
crazy um

881
00:30:39,909 --> 00:30:38,080
like it's about because psychology it's

882
00:30:43,430 --> 00:30:39,919
right what we believe what we believe

883
00:30:45,110 --> 00:30:43,440
right so so like here it is

884
00:30:46,789 --> 00:30:45,120
but it goes back to the west memphis

885
00:30:48,950 --> 00:30:46,799
three case right hey

886
00:30:50,149 --> 00:30:48,960
they didn't retry those guys so

887
00:30:51,510 --> 00:30:50,159
obviously they didn't they

888
00:30:53,269 --> 00:30:51,520
didn't do it obviously they didn't do

889
00:30:55,830 --> 00:30:53,279
their they obviously they didn't re they

890
00:30:57,830 --> 00:30:55,840
didn't do the crime

891
00:30:58,870 --> 00:30:57,840
well that's what you i mean right i know

892
00:31:01,509 --> 00:30:58,880
what you're saying

893
00:31:02,870 --> 00:31:01,519
i get it but they are still guilty a lot

894
00:31:05,269 --> 00:31:02,880
i think their

895
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:05,279
uh probation ends in august of this year

896
00:31:10,950 --> 00:31:06,240
but yeah

897
00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:10,960
i mean they're guilty of law

898
00:31:14,630 --> 00:31:12,720
they could get re-tried i mean they got

899
00:31:16,149 --> 00:31:14,640
off they got they got let out of prison

900
00:31:17,909 --> 00:31:16,159
they don't let people out of prison

901
00:31:19,990 --> 00:31:17,919
if these guys realize that they signed

902
00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:20,000
on the dotted line that they

903
00:31:24,870 --> 00:31:23,039
were uh that they there's enough

904
00:31:26,470 --> 00:31:24,880
evidence for them to have a conviction

905
00:31:30,310 --> 00:31:26,480
of first-degree murder so

906
00:31:36,230 --> 00:31:33,830
i'm saying man you get what i'm saying

907
00:31:38,470 --> 00:31:36,240
i know well yeah i think that you're

908
00:31:40,950 --> 00:31:38,480
kind of you're

909
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:40,960
the approach that you're taking to

910
00:31:47,110 --> 00:31:44,080
christianity is through josephus

911
00:31:49,909 --> 00:31:47,120
therefore all of the core texts

912
00:31:51,029 --> 00:31:49,919
that were there whether it's the

913
00:31:53,669 --> 00:31:51,039
writings of paul

914
00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:53,679
and the original gospels are we're not

915
00:31:56,310 --> 00:31:54,960
getting to that we're not talking about

916
00:31:59,269 --> 00:31:56,320
okay we're just talking about

917
00:32:00,789 --> 00:31:59,279
what you're insinuating then that

918
00:32:02,470 --> 00:32:00,799
because that's what you're saying about

919
00:32:06,870 --> 00:32:02,480
like how you're applying my

920
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:06,880
my view of you know dc how like you

921
00:32:09,509 --> 00:32:08,240
could have the scales fall from your

922
00:32:13,029 --> 00:32:09,519
eyes and see things differently when

923
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:15,509
where i was really trying to get to and

924
00:32:21,509 --> 00:32:18,000
and we will get there eventually

925
00:32:24,870 --> 00:32:21,519
is that spirituality

926
00:32:25,909 --> 00:32:24,880
is real and we're in this strange

927
00:32:27,669 --> 00:32:25,919
situation

928
00:32:29,590 --> 00:32:27,679
which is something we would agree with

929
00:32:31,190 --> 00:32:29,600
and then your spirituality is different

930
00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:31,200
than my spirituality

931
00:32:35,190 --> 00:32:33,360
here's what's super interesting i think

932
00:32:37,350 --> 00:32:35,200
and important about your work

933
00:32:39,269 --> 00:32:37,360
and what comes through again and again

934
00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:39,279
and where it intersects with kind of my

935
00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:40,320
worldview and

936
00:32:47,190 --> 00:32:43,840
what i've been pounding on is that

937
00:32:48,870 --> 00:32:47,200
the denial of spirituality the denial of

938
00:32:52,029 --> 00:32:48,880
the idea that each of us

939
00:32:55,350 --> 00:32:52,039
has this rich spiritual

940
00:32:58,070 --> 00:32:55,360
non-physical experience

941
00:32:59,430 --> 00:32:58,080
is part of the agenda and it's part of

942
00:33:02,549 --> 00:32:59,440
the agenda that comes up

943
00:33:04,950 --> 00:33:02,559
again and again with you know

944
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:04,960
the post-modern you can't really believe

945
00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:06,960
anything the wokeness

946
00:33:12,230 --> 00:33:10,320
the it comes in with the scientific

947
00:33:14,070 --> 00:33:12,240
luciferian you know merge with the

948
00:33:16,269 --> 00:33:14,080
machine you really have no soul

949
00:33:17,669 --> 00:33:16,279
communism you could say that too

950
00:33:20,710 --> 00:33:17,679
communitarianism

951
00:33:21,669 --> 00:33:20,720
it is an agenda it is a it is what's

952
00:33:24,149 --> 00:33:21,679
being sold

953
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:24,159
it's a social engineering project

954
00:33:30,149 --> 00:33:26,640
because if i can separate you

955
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:30,159
from your spirituality then

956
00:33:33,590 --> 00:33:32,880
man you are easier to control right you

957
00:33:37,909 --> 00:33:33,600
are not

958
00:33:40,070 --> 00:33:37,919
you're just freaking a biological world

959
00:33:41,830 --> 00:33:40,080
yeah the worst you're just an accident

960
00:33:43,590 --> 00:33:41,840
of time and space

961
00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:43,600
right that's all that all the whole

962
00:33:46,870 --> 00:33:45,600
evolutionary outlook is that you're just

963
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:46,880
a random event in a

964
00:33:52,710 --> 00:33:50,640
cir random cake uh cosmos right

965
00:33:53,990 --> 00:33:52,720
so there's there's two so to me this is

966
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:54,000
kind of my world view

967
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:56,000
is that there's two steps to this well

968
00:33:59,990 --> 00:33:57,200
there's many steps to it

969
00:34:02,070 --> 00:34:00,000
but one step is that you know one one

970
00:34:04,630 --> 00:34:02,080
way that i can

971
00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:04,640
kind of get to you is to separate you

972
00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:06,000
from your spirituality

973
00:34:09,430 --> 00:34:07,440
and convince you that you really don't

974
00:34:11,349 --> 00:34:09,440
have a spirituality you are

975
00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:11,359
what did you say an accident of time and

976
00:34:15,109 --> 00:34:12,720
space you know you are

977
00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:15,119
right a biological robot ran this

978
00:34:20,710 --> 00:34:17,200
universe

979
00:34:23,750 --> 00:34:20,720
right but then the the second uh

980
00:34:26,950 --> 00:34:23,760
point i guess that i'm driving towards

981
00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:26,960
is that if that doesn't work the next

982
00:34:31,030 --> 00:34:28,560
thing that i can do

983
00:34:31,990 --> 00:34:31,040
is take your genuine spiritual

984
00:34:34,550 --> 00:34:32,000
experience

985
00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:34,560
and then try and co-opt it and i see

986
00:34:38,149 --> 00:34:36,720
religion as a way of co-opting it right

987
00:34:39,109 --> 00:34:38,159
so you have a genuine spiritual

988
00:34:41,589 --> 00:34:39,119
experience

989
00:34:42,869 --> 00:34:41,599
i agree with that so you have a gent you

990
00:34:46,149 --> 00:34:42,879
know william ramsey

991
00:34:46,470 --> 00:34:46,159
has a spiritual life and his spiritual

992
00:34:48,149 --> 00:34:46,480
life

993
00:34:49,589 --> 00:34:48,159
is a direct connection with christ

994
00:34:52,550 --> 00:34:49,599
consciousness if you will

995
00:34:54,470 --> 00:34:52,560
allow that you know but i totally accept

996
00:34:55,750 --> 00:34:54,480
that you are having a spiritual

997
00:34:57,750 --> 00:34:55,760
experience

998
00:34:59,829 --> 00:34:57,760
with this thing and i'm just putting

999
00:35:03,030 --> 00:34:59,839
that label on it christ consciousness

1000
00:35:04,630 --> 00:35:03,040
and that i don't i don't i hold loosely

1001
00:35:06,710 --> 00:35:04,640
the connection with that and the

1002
00:35:10,109 --> 00:35:06,720
historical jesus i'm not saying it's

1003
00:35:13,270 --> 00:35:10,119
not there but i'm saying it isn't

1004
00:35:16,390 --> 00:35:13,280
necessarily as kind of detailed

1005
00:35:19,510 --> 00:35:16,400
it has to fit perfectly in order for

1006
00:35:21,349 --> 00:35:19,520
your spiritual experience to still be

1007
00:35:23,190 --> 00:35:21,359
valid and here's where i'm trying to

1008
00:35:25,670 --> 00:35:23,200
head with that because

1009
00:35:27,430 --> 00:35:25,680
the reason i put it together that way is

1010
00:35:29,349 --> 00:35:27,440
primarily because of

1011
00:35:30,870 --> 00:35:29,359
like when i went looking for this i went

1012
00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:30,880
looking for the science and the best

1013
00:35:35,990 --> 00:35:33,280
science i found is near-death experience

1014
00:35:37,030 --> 00:35:36,000
so with near-death experience people are

1015
00:35:39,670 --> 00:35:37,040
dead

1016
00:35:42,550 --> 00:35:39,680
they no longer have that brain they no

1017
00:35:45,030 --> 00:35:42,560
longer have that biological robot thing

1018
00:35:46,390 --> 00:35:45,040
and they are now they are infinitely

1019
00:35:49,349 --> 00:35:46,400
more connected

1020
00:35:49,990 --> 00:35:49,359
to the spiritual and there's plenty of

1021
00:35:52,230 --> 00:35:50,000
people

1022
00:35:53,030 --> 00:35:52,240
that are super connected with christ

1023
00:35:55,589 --> 00:35:53,040
consciousness

1024
00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:55,599
in that realm and all sorts of different

1025
00:35:58,790 --> 00:35:57,359
levels of christ consciousness but some

1026
00:36:00,870 --> 00:35:58,800
like literal

1027
00:36:02,310 --> 00:36:00,880
you know i touch the hands the blood

1028
00:36:03,109 --> 00:36:02,320
kind of thing which i don't know what to

1029
00:36:05,910 --> 00:36:03,119
make of that

1030
00:36:07,910 --> 00:36:05,920
but i i accept that i would say it's a

1031
00:36:09,589 --> 00:36:07,920
false interpretation of

1032
00:36:11,670 --> 00:36:09,599
of what gospels it's all well it's

1033
00:36:13,750 --> 00:36:11,680
obviously if you look at the last supper

1034
00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:13,760
passover's coming up what tomorrow is

1035
00:36:19,270 --> 00:36:16,640
today right i mean the last supper is

1036
00:36:20,710 --> 00:36:19,280
obviously symbolic but they've in within

1037
00:36:24,550 --> 00:36:20,720
christianity they've made it more

1038
00:36:31,190 --> 00:36:28,190
at the wafer in the wine or literal

1039
00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:31,200
transmogrifications of blood in his body

1040
00:36:39,349 --> 00:36:37,670
okay so symbolic it's

1041
00:36:41,829 --> 00:36:39,359
clearly symbolic because even in the

1042
00:36:43,829 --> 00:36:41,839
last supper he's using it as a symbol

1043
00:36:45,750 --> 00:36:43,839
he doesn't cut open his thumb and drop

1044
00:36:48,790 --> 00:36:45,760
blood out it's ridiculous

1045
00:36:49,670 --> 00:36:48,800
well my only point even the one even i

1046
00:36:51,990 --> 00:36:49,680
mean we can go in

1047
00:36:54,069 --> 00:36:52,000
even within christianity people say the

1048
00:36:57,750 --> 00:36:54,079
blood of jesus it's obviously a symbol

1049
00:36:59,670 --> 00:36:57,760
it's not the literal blood of jesus yeah

1050
00:37:01,349 --> 00:36:59,680
and where i was going with that william

1051
00:37:04,710 --> 00:37:01,359
is i've spoken

1052
00:37:08,550 --> 00:37:04,720
to a number of people that have uh

1053
00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:08,560
verifiable near-death experiences and by

1054
00:37:12,790 --> 00:37:10,800
near verifiable near-death experiences

1055
00:37:14,630 --> 00:37:12,800
we can say all the medical conditions

1056
00:37:15,990 --> 00:37:14,640
that they report and we can verify would

1057
00:37:19,190 --> 00:37:16,000
suggest that they were dead

1058
00:37:21,430 --> 00:37:19,200
right and then these people

1059
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:21,440
have these experiences and they report

1060
00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:22,560
back having

1061
00:37:29,030 --> 00:37:26,160
spiritual experiences that they identify

1062
00:37:31,430 --> 00:37:29,040
as being with christ consciousness now

1063
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:31,440
one of the ways that i evaluate

1064
00:37:34,870 --> 00:37:33,280
whether those experiences should be

1065
00:37:37,910 --> 00:37:34,880
taken seriously

1066
00:37:41,109 --> 00:37:37,920
is how they live their [\h__\h] life

1067
00:37:44,310 --> 00:37:41,119
if they come back and they're walking

1068
00:37:46,950 --> 00:37:44,320
the talk and living spiritual

1069
00:37:48,230 --> 00:37:46,960
lives and being good people and that's

1070
00:37:51,829 --> 00:37:48,240
what they're about

1071
00:37:55,109 --> 00:37:51,839
is love and compassion and

1072
00:37:58,550 --> 00:37:55,119
goodness then i say hmm

1073
00:37:59,750 --> 00:37:58,560
that seems to be evidence that they

1074
00:38:02,310 --> 00:37:59,760
maybe had that

1075
00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:02,320
good experience if they come back and

1076
00:38:06,790 --> 00:38:02,880
they're

1077
00:38:08,230 --> 00:38:06,800
lying deceptive cultish kind of secret

1078
00:38:11,190 --> 00:38:08,240
society people

1079
00:38:12,230 --> 00:38:11,200
which none i've never encountered or

1080
00:38:13,910 --> 00:38:12,240
even heard

1081
00:38:16,150 --> 00:38:13,920
of in the thousands of cases that

1082
00:38:17,030 --> 00:38:16,160
they've been reported i've never heard

1083
00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:17,040
of someone

1084
00:38:20,230 --> 00:38:18,960
saying i went to the light after i

1085
00:38:23,349 --> 00:38:20,240
clinically died

1086
00:38:26,390 --> 00:38:23,359
and i came back and i decided to go do

1087
00:38:29,109 --> 00:38:26,400
alistar you know sex

1088
00:38:29,990 --> 00:38:29,119
magic and bringing forth the ant i've

1089
00:38:33,829 --> 00:38:30,000
never

1090
00:38:36,990 --> 00:38:33,839
zero cases of that i think that

1091
00:38:40,870 --> 00:38:37,000
evidence is important and it's

1092
00:38:44,710 --> 00:38:40,880
impenetrable to the quote christian

1093
00:38:46,870 --> 00:38:44,720
beliefs well it's well yeah well

1094
00:38:49,430 --> 00:38:46,880
uh it depends i mean it depends what

1095
00:38:50,870 --> 00:38:49,440
version of christianity or kind of

1096
00:38:52,470 --> 00:38:50,880
what happens when you're dead i mean i

1097
00:38:54,550 --> 00:38:52,480
think the general

1098
00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:54,560
outlook is you pass away the

1099
00:38:58,630 --> 00:38:56,720
resurrection you're judged

1100
00:38:59,990 --> 00:38:58,640
then you go on to heaven or hell right

1101
00:39:03,190 --> 00:39:00,000
so that's a very general term

1102
00:39:04,630 --> 00:39:03,200
but paul even paul like we all shine on

1103
00:39:06,550 --> 00:39:04,640
the sun the moon and the stars right

1104
00:39:09,270 --> 00:39:06,560
that whole line or whatever it is from

1105
00:39:09,990 --> 00:39:09,280
lennon was taken from one of paul's

1106
00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:10,000
missives

1107
00:39:15,829 --> 00:39:12,400
so even the mormons they actually key

1108
00:39:18,069 --> 00:39:15,839
into that as some kind of uh

1109
00:39:20,230 --> 00:39:18,079
you know not resurrection but

1110
00:39:23,270 --> 00:39:20,240
reincarnation kind of outlook

1111
00:39:24,470 --> 00:39:23,280
so uh there's a little bit i mean if you

1112
00:39:27,510 --> 00:39:24,480
want to really get into

1113
00:39:30,950 --> 00:39:27,520
like more esoteric aspects of what

1114
00:39:32,230 --> 00:39:30,960
people have written at least paul too is

1115
00:39:34,950 --> 00:39:32,240
probably you know

1116
00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:34,960
the hide the most ball for sure the most

1117
00:39:38,390 --> 00:39:35,520
uh

1118
00:39:39,910 --> 00:39:38,400
quoted and referenced christian thinker

1119
00:39:41,349 --> 00:39:39,920
who knew peter and all those other

1120
00:39:43,430 --> 00:39:41,359
people right so

1121
00:39:45,829 --> 00:39:43,440
uh that's also another kind of problem

1122
00:39:47,589 --> 00:39:45,839
with the josephus kind of view of

1123
00:39:48,870 --> 00:39:47,599
the gospels being you know pure

1124
00:39:50,310 --> 00:39:48,880
political document but

1125
00:39:52,069 --> 00:39:50,320
there's some other elements within

1126
00:39:52,870 --> 00:39:52,079
christianity that don't comport with the

1127
00:39:56,150 --> 00:39:52,880
kind of

1128
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:56,160
superficial surface

1129
00:40:01,990 --> 00:39:59,760
kind of uh generalized doctrines that

1130
00:40:04,390 --> 00:40:02,000
christians and non-christians uh

1131
00:40:06,470 --> 00:40:04,400
perceive as being what christianity is

1132
00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:06,480
about

1133
00:40:11,109 --> 00:40:09,440
yeah i just that winds up sounding a lot

1134
00:40:14,630 --> 00:40:11,119
like goblin [\h__\h] to me

1135
00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:14,640
i mean there is no just because there is

1136
00:40:18,470 --> 00:40:15,200
no

1137
00:40:23,589 --> 00:40:18,480
and

1138
00:40:26,230 --> 00:40:23,599
you know buddha's 500 years before or

1139
00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:26,240
there's all these great spiritual people

1140
00:40:30,470 --> 00:40:28,240
that have had these downloads

1141
00:40:33,750 --> 00:40:30,480
i mean again the part about christianity

1142
00:40:35,829 --> 00:40:33,760
that i think a lot of us sit back and go

1143
00:40:38,069 --> 00:40:35,839
how are you even processing that is to

1144
00:40:40,309 --> 00:40:38,079
say there's this special time

1145
00:40:41,829 --> 00:40:40,319
there's this special time 2000 years ago

1146
00:40:42,390 --> 00:40:41,839
well what about all the people that came

1147
00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:42,400
before

1148
00:40:46,710 --> 00:40:44,720
what about all the people that we

1149
00:40:49,829 --> 00:40:46,720
encounter in our lives that never had

1150
00:40:51,349 --> 00:40:49,839
any contact with that experience of that

1151
00:40:52,150 --> 00:40:51,359
christian experience that christian

1152
00:40:55,589 --> 00:40:52,160
education

1153
00:40:57,109 --> 00:40:55,599
and our more spiritual we would all say

1154
00:41:00,230 --> 00:40:57,119
are what we aspire to be

1155
00:41:01,670 --> 00:41:00,240
in that spiritual sense but

1156
00:41:03,990 --> 00:41:01,680
i don't even want to go there because

1157
00:41:06,069 --> 00:41:04,000
all the answers are just gobbly good

1158
00:41:07,430 --> 00:41:06,079
what what i would kind of bring back in

1159
00:41:09,670 --> 00:41:07,440
and this is an effort to try and

1160
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:09,680
understand

1161
00:41:13,990 --> 00:41:12,480
the christian perspective in a really

1162
00:41:16,470 --> 00:41:14,000
kind of

1163
00:41:18,069 --> 00:41:16,480
no [\h__\h] way which i don't think and

1164
00:41:21,510 --> 00:41:18,079
i appreciate you doing this because i've

1165
00:41:24,470 --> 00:41:21,520
never been able to

1166
00:41:25,990 --> 00:41:24,480
so you know the next thing with with the

1167
00:41:28,230 --> 00:41:26,000
near death experience

1168
00:41:30,790 --> 00:41:28,240
like so number one i i just interviewed

1169
00:41:32,710 --> 00:41:30,800
this guy bruce grayson who's been

1170
00:41:34,790 --> 00:41:32,720
probably one of the most well-known

1171
00:41:37,510 --> 00:41:34,800
near-death experience researchers

1172
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:37,520
40 years at university of virginia

1173
00:41:42,150 --> 00:41:38,880
hundreds and hundreds of paper

1174
00:41:43,270 --> 00:41:42,160
influenced all these people grew up in a

1175
00:41:47,109 --> 00:41:43,280
very

1176
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:47,119
secular household no belief in any of

1177
00:41:51,910 --> 00:41:48,000
this stuff

1178
00:41:53,910 --> 00:41:51,920
and now believes in god and is

1179
00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:53,920
is able to say that after you know it

1180
00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:55,680
taken a long time to be able to say i

1181
00:41:59,750 --> 00:41:57,760
just can't get around the evidence

1182
00:42:01,349 --> 00:41:59,760
but of course he isn't a christian

1183
00:42:02,950 --> 00:42:01,359
because anyone who encounters the

1184
00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:02,960
near-death experience research one of

1185
00:42:08,230 --> 00:42:04,560
the things that comes through to that

1186
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:08,240
is there's no exclusivity there's no

1187
00:42:13,270 --> 00:42:11,440
christian is right kind of christian the

1188
00:42:15,270 --> 00:42:13,280
primacy of christianity

1189
00:42:17,510 --> 00:42:15,280
it just does not come through in those

1190
00:42:19,190 --> 00:42:17,520
accounts so if you want to throw out

1191
00:42:21,109 --> 00:42:19,200
all that research and you just want to

1192
00:42:22,309 --> 00:42:21,119
say well i don't know whatever they're

1193
00:42:25,510 --> 00:42:22,319
having

1194
00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:25,520
it isn't it's non-christian so i'm going

1195
00:42:29,589 --> 00:42:27,280
to ignore it all

1196
00:42:31,829 --> 00:42:29,599
you're stepping over probably the best

1197
00:42:34,390 --> 00:42:31,839
science we have for understanding the

1198
00:42:36,230 --> 00:42:34,400
reality of spirituality

1199
00:42:37,510 --> 00:42:36,240
well i mean i think that stepping over

1200
00:42:39,030 --> 00:42:37,520
is one thing i mean i think

1201
00:42:41,349 --> 00:42:39,040
at least in christianity they talk about

1202
00:42:43,910 --> 00:42:41,359
the gifts of the spirit so people

1203
00:42:44,710 --> 00:42:43,920
leave their bodies they talk to and

1204
00:42:47,670 --> 00:42:44,720
whatever they

1205
00:42:48,790 --> 00:42:47,680
derive in for in inspiration or holy

1206
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:48,800
spirit

1207
00:42:53,109 --> 00:42:52,640
so i think uh some of these ndes could

1208
00:42:56,390 --> 00:42:53,119
be put

1209
00:42:59,109 --> 00:42:56,400
into that context i don't think that uh

1210
00:43:00,870 --> 00:42:59,119
i mean you i think when you're talk when

1211
00:43:02,870 --> 00:43:00,880
you're talking about christianity you're

1212
00:43:05,430 --> 00:43:02,880
talking about it in a very general sense

1213
00:43:06,630 --> 00:43:05,440
which i don't mind but i would say my

1214
00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:06,640
outlook is not

1215
00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:10,640
uh pretty independent so

1216
00:43:13,910 --> 00:43:12,400
but i do believe my outlook is

1217
00:43:17,190 --> 00:43:13,920
definitely bible based

1218
00:43:19,829 --> 00:43:17,200
but uh well it can be bible based yeah

1219
00:43:22,069 --> 00:43:19,839
you you can you can you can control that

1220
00:43:23,270 --> 00:43:22,079
but just maybe let me make sure i'm

1221
00:43:25,030 --> 00:43:23,280
being i mean

1222
00:43:26,790 --> 00:43:25,040
here's even better the death and

1223
00:43:28,710 --> 00:43:26,800
resurrection of jesus christ could be

1224
00:43:30,230 --> 00:43:28,720
seen as a near-death experience

1225
00:43:31,510 --> 00:43:30,240
so just let me make explicit what i'm

1226
00:43:33,430 --> 00:43:31,520
saying is there's thousands of

1227
00:43:35,109 --> 00:43:33,440
near-death experience accounts at this

1228
00:43:37,430 --> 00:43:35,119
point that have been recorded

1229
00:43:39,030 --> 00:43:37,440
and you can kind of study them in two

1230
00:43:41,109 --> 00:43:39,040
ways and you have to first you have to

1231
00:43:43,670 --> 00:43:41,119
study them from a kind of

1232
00:43:45,589 --> 00:43:43,680
physiological neurological medical

1233
00:43:46,470 --> 00:43:45,599
standpoint and say okay were they really

1234
00:43:48,550 --> 00:43:46,480
dead

1235
00:43:49,750 --> 00:43:48,560
and did they really have the experience

1236
00:43:50,870 --> 00:43:49,760
you know so like one of the things they

1237
00:43:54,950 --> 00:43:50,880
do william is they

1238
00:43:58,550 --> 00:43:54,960
ask people to recall their resuscitation

1239
00:43:59,910 --> 00:43:58,560
well if your brain is out your brain is

1240
00:44:02,150 --> 00:43:59,920
flatlined your brain is not

1241
00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:02,160
active in producing consciousness you

1242
00:44:05,109 --> 00:44:04,000
should not be able to recall your

1243
00:44:06,870 --> 00:44:05,119
resuscitation

1244
00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:06,880
so it's kind of a good control simple

1245
00:44:10,710 --> 00:44:08,480
experiment to see

1246
00:44:11,829 --> 00:44:10,720
if there really is this extended realm

1247
00:44:14,470 --> 00:44:11,839
right so

1248
00:44:15,510 --> 00:44:14,480
the science there confirms there is this

1249
00:44:18,390 --> 00:44:15,520
extended realm

1250
00:44:20,470 --> 00:44:18,400
so that's the science on one hand then

1251
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:20,480
what you can do is start looking at the

1252
00:44:23,670 --> 00:44:21,359
content

1253
00:44:24,589 --> 00:44:23,680
of those experiences right and you can

1254
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:24,599
say like

1255
00:44:28,870 --> 00:44:27,599
overwhelmingly like 90 what people come

1256
00:44:31,430 --> 00:44:28,880
back and say

1257
00:44:32,470 --> 00:44:31,440
god they say you know hey for lack of a

1258
00:44:34,470 --> 00:44:32,480
better term

1259
00:44:37,990 --> 00:44:34,480
call it light call it love call whatever

1260
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:38,000
you want i experienced

1261
00:44:40,870 --> 00:44:39,520
i can't even call it love there's no

1262
00:44:42,069 --> 00:44:40,880
words for it but i'll try and describe

1263
00:44:44,150 --> 00:44:42,079
it to you because you want to hear it

1264
00:44:45,190 --> 00:44:44,160
but it's just complete acceptance

1265
00:44:47,430 --> 00:44:45,200
complete love

1266
00:44:48,470 --> 00:44:47,440
complete divinity complete something

1267
00:44:51,270 --> 00:44:48,480
higher that

1268
00:44:52,790 --> 00:44:51,280
is overwhelming the finding from the

1269
00:44:55,349 --> 00:44:52,800
near-death experience literature

1270
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:55,359
it's not tunnels it's not dead relatives

1271
00:44:59,190 --> 00:44:56,160
or anything like that

1272
00:45:02,150 --> 00:44:59,200
it's god and it's love

1273
00:45:02,550 --> 00:45:02,160
so that's the the second finding but the

1274
00:45:06,150 --> 00:45:02,560
the

1275
00:45:07,430 --> 00:45:06,160
comes through consistently if you're

1276
00:45:10,870 --> 00:45:07,440
going to accept that

1277
00:45:13,550 --> 00:45:10,880
data is there is no

1278
00:45:14,710 --> 00:45:13,560
primary religion there is no

1279
00:45:17,910 --> 00:45:14,720
christianity

1280
00:45:18,390 --> 00:45:17,920
is the way it just they say no they say

1281
00:45:21,589 --> 00:45:18,400
there's

1282
00:45:24,150 --> 00:45:21,599
all sorts of different ways for to

1283
00:45:26,150 --> 00:45:24,160
reach that god to reach that divinity

1284
00:45:27,670 --> 00:45:26,160
and there's no special place for

1285
00:45:29,349 --> 00:45:27,680
christianity

1286
00:45:31,109 --> 00:45:29,359
if you're gonna so you can reject that

1287
00:45:32,550 --> 00:45:31,119
and say well that's just [\h__\h] i i

1288
00:45:33,589 --> 00:45:32,560
know because i'm a christian and that's

1289
00:45:35,589 --> 00:45:33,599
what i've been taught

1290
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:35,599
but if you're going to follow that data

1291
00:45:39,670 --> 00:45:36,960
well i do but yeah but i

1292
00:45:41,190 --> 00:45:39,680
most of my reading and research is

1293
00:45:41,750 --> 00:45:41,200
self-taught so nobody's really taught me

1294
00:45:46,230 --> 00:45:41,760
anything

1295
00:45:47,829 --> 00:45:46,240
other than myself right well i i wish

1296
00:45:48,950 --> 00:45:47,839
you'd take that one step further and say

1297
00:45:50,470 --> 00:45:48,960
you know you just have a direct

1298
00:45:51,829 --> 00:45:50,480
spiritual experience because

1299
00:45:53,750 --> 00:45:51,839
anyone who has a direct spiritual

1300
00:45:55,589 --> 00:45:53,760
experience like if you pray to to

1301
00:45:57,109 --> 00:45:55,599
jesus or god or whatever and you get an

1302
00:45:59,430 --> 00:45:57,119
answer i'm down with that

1303
00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:59,440
because to me that's how the data reads

1304
00:46:02,230 --> 00:46:00,400
it's like

1305
00:46:03,430 --> 00:46:02,240
you don't you don't need an intermediary

1306
00:46:07,349 --> 00:46:03,440
you

1307
00:46:09,270 --> 00:46:07,359
don't need an intermediary

1308
00:46:11,190 --> 00:46:09,280
you don't why would you possibly need

1309
00:46:13,430 --> 00:46:11,200
how i don't know why people

1310
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:13,440
fall for that to me that's like such a

1311
00:46:16,309 --> 00:46:14,560
scam it's like

1312
00:46:18,230 --> 00:46:16,319
really you need somebody up there that

1313
00:46:19,349 --> 00:46:18,240
that guy up at the front who says okay

1314
00:46:21,510 --> 00:46:19,359
give me your money

1315
00:46:23,190 --> 00:46:21,520
take this bread and now i will interpret

1316
00:46:25,910 --> 00:46:23,200
everything for you why would you forget

1317
00:46:27,430 --> 00:46:25,920
that good question but here's the thing

1318
00:46:29,589 --> 00:46:27,440
if you ever compare

1319
00:46:31,270 --> 00:46:29,599
like uh christian kind of views of

1320
00:46:33,829 --> 00:46:31,280
people who have died

1321
00:46:36,150 --> 00:46:33,839
and supposedly stood before god or

1322
00:46:37,829 --> 00:46:36,160
experienced god to

1323
00:46:40,069 --> 00:46:37,839
non-christians or other people who've

1324
00:46:42,390 --> 00:46:40,079
experienced ndes and and looked at the

1325
00:46:44,309 --> 00:46:42,400
similarities or differences

1326
00:46:45,670 --> 00:46:44,319
uh yeah and there's a lot of other

1327
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:45,680
people have done it a lot better than i

1328
00:46:49,670 --> 00:46:46,800
do but the main

1329
00:46:50,069 --> 00:46:49,680
thing that comes through that is key i

1330
00:46:52,870 --> 00:46:50,079
think

1331
00:46:54,309 --> 00:46:52,880
for christians to i don't want to say

1332
00:46:55,750 --> 00:46:54,319
understand because that makes it sound

1333
00:46:57,829 --> 00:46:55,760
like i know something just to go

1334
00:47:00,870 --> 00:46:57,839
investigate on their own

1335
00:47:03,349 --> 00:47:00,880
is this thing about judgment because

1336
00:47:04,790 --> 00:47:03,359
the consistency and this is like to me

1337
00:47:06,790 --> 00:47:04,800
it fits back to what we're saying about

1338
00:47:07,670 --> 00:47:06,800
the classic way that things get co-opted

1339
00:47:09,829 --> 00:47:07,680
and that's why i think

1340
00:47:11,589 --> 00:47:09,839
christianity is a co-opted spiritual

1341
00:47:11,910 --> 00:47:11,599
experience and one other thing i wanted

1342
00:47:13,829 --> 00:47:11,920
to

1343
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:13,839
mention was this gregory shushan guy but

1344
00:47:16,870 --> 00:47:14,960
before i get there

1345
00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:16,880
i don't want to bury the lead the lead

1346
00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:18,720
is it's completely about

1347
00:47:24,870 --> 00:47:22,319
judgment every not every act that you do

1348
00:47:25,430 --> 00:47:24,880
every thought that you have everything

1349
00:47:34,790 --> 00:47:25,440
will

1350
00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:34,800
your soul

1351
00:47:39,589 --> 00:47:38,160
will stand in judgment and most people

1352
00:47:41,510 --> 00:47:39,599
as soon as they hear that they kind of

1353
00:47:43,510 --> 00:47:41,520
have a big sigh and they go

1354
00:47:44,630 --> 00:47:43,520
yeah i kind of knew that i kind of knew

1355
00:47:47,109 --> 00:47:44,640
that all along

1356
00:47:48,390 --> 00:47:47,119
i knew that from the time i was a kid

1357
00:47:49,990 --> 00:47:48,400
and i was

1358
00:47:52,470 --> 00:47:50,000
tempted to take that candy from the

1359
00:47:54,069 --> 00:47:52,480
store and there was something inside of

1360
00:47:56,069 --> 00:47:54,079
me that said

1361
00:47:57,750 --> 00:47:56,079
i should do it or oh i'm really hung i

1362
00:48:02,309 --> 00:47:57,760
really want it or i don't do it

1363
00:48:04,870 --> 00:48:02,319
it wasn't something outside of you some

1364
00:48:05,589 --> 00:48:04,880
it was you it was your soul's journey

1365
00:48:08,309 --> 00:48:05,599
and so what the

1366
00:48:08,710 --> 00:48:08,319
indie ears say is that you when you die

1367
00:48:10,950 --> 00:48:08,720
you are

1368
00:48:12,549 --> 00:48:10,960
completely supported completely loved

1369
00:48:13,430 --> 00:48:12,559
and the fact that you are now going to

1370
00:48:15,349 --> 00:48:13,440
face

1371
00:48:16,790 --> 00:48:15,359
the judgment of what you did through

1372
00:48:18,790 --> 00:48:16,800
your own experience

1373
00:48:20,390 --> 00:48:18,800
that's that's hard enough for you we

1374
00:48:22,790 --> 00:48:20,400
don't need to have on top of that and

1375
00:48:26,710 --> 00:48:22,800
judge you you judge yourself

1376
00:48:30,710 --> 00:48:26,720
interesting so so so according to your

1377
00:48:32,870 --> 00:48:30,720
post death ex view then

1378
00:48:35,190 --> 00:48:32,880
you will go to some place and self-judge

1379
00:48:37,510 --> 00:48:35,200
and then what happens

1380
00:48:38,870 --> 00:48:37,520
well there's a lot of questions about

1381
00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:38,880
what happens

1382
00:48:41,829 --> 00:48:40,480
and there's not a lot of definitive

1383
00:48:43,109 --> 00:48:41,839
answers but that's where i was going to

1384
00:48:47,270 --> 00:48:43,119
throw in this last guy

1385
00:48:49,109 --> 00:48:47,280
super important guy for anyone who is

1386
00:48:51,109 --> 00:48:49,119
interested in kind of exploring this so

1387
00:48:54,230 --> 00:48:51,119
i interviewed this one guy

1388
00:48:55,750 --> 00:48:54,240
there's there's some real uh tie-ins to

1389
00:48:57,270 --> 00:48:55,760
the other conversation we're having

1390
00:48:58,150 --> 00:48:57,280
because this guy's name is dr gregory

1391
00:49:03,349 --> 00:48:58,160
shushan

1392
00:49:05,910 --> 00:49:03,359
and uh super you know phd guy oxford guy

1393
00:49:08,150 --> 00:49:05,920
barely eking out a living within

1394
00:49:10,390 --> 00:49:08,160
academia because he's

1395
00:49:12,790 --> 00:49:10,400
of course studying something spiritual

1396
00:49:15,109 --> 00:49:12,800
which makes him completely

1397
00:49:16,630 --> 00:49:15,119
persona non grata so the way he gets

1398
00:49:18,150 --> 00:49:16,640
around it is he kind of talks out of

1399
00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:18,160
both sides of his mouth you know he's

1400
00:49:20,630 --> 00:49:19,200
talking about all these near-death

1401
00:49:23,589 --> 00:49:20,640
experiences in other cultures

1402
00:49:23,910 --> 00:49:23,599
that's his work near-death experiences

1403
00:49:27,349 --> 00:49:23,920
in

1404
00:49:28,790 --> 00:49:27,359
other cultures throughout time so he has

1405
00:49:29,990 --> 00:49:28,800
hundreds and hundreds of year olds

1406
00:49:32,870 --> 00:49:30,000
accounts from

1407
00:49:33,510 --> 00:49:32,880
polynesians from native americans south

1408
00:49:36,069 --> 00:49:33,520
america

1409
00:49:36,549 --> 00:49:36,079
south africa all over the place right

1410
00:49:40,150 --> 00:49:36,559
and he's

1411
00:49:43,829 --> 00:49:40,160
analyzed those over time

1412
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:43,839
what he's found is that in virtually

1413
00:49:50,549 --> 00:49:47,040
every culture that he's found

1414
00:49:52,150 --> 00:49:50,559
the near-death experience forms the

1415
00:49:55,589 --> 00:49:52,160
foundation

1416
00:49:58,150 --> 00:49:55,599
of the afterlife beliefs of the group

1417
00:50:00,150 --> 00:49:58,160
right and what he found that's even more

1418
00:50:01,829 --> 00:50:00,160
interesting in confirming of it he said

1419
00:50:02,710 --> 00:50:01,839
in some of these kind of shamanistic

1420
00:50:04,470 --> 00:50:02,720
cultures

1421
00:50:06,630 --> 00:50:04,480
they will have a belief about the

1422
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:06,640
afterlife and then

1423
00:50:10,950 --> 00:50:08,640
you know william will be out there and

1424
00:50:12,870 --> 00:50:10,960
get hit by a tree and die

1425
00:50:14,309 --> 00:50:12,880
and he'll come back and he'll say hey

1426
00:50:17,589 --> 00:50:14,319
this is what happened

1427
00:50:20,630 --> 00:50:17,599
and it is such a compelling account

1428
00:50:24,069 --> 00:50:20,640
that the shaman will go wait

1429
00:50:26,630 --> 00:50:24,079
william well exactly william is right

1430
00:50:27,990 --> 00:50:26,640
william must be right we need to change

1431
00:50:30,230 --> 00:50:28,000
our beliefs

1432
00:50:32,390 --> 00:50:30,240
it's it's powerful research because when

1433
00:50:33,270 --> 00:50:32,400
you go cross culture and you go cross

1434
00:50:35,190 --> 00:50:33,280
time

1435
00:50:37,510 --> 00:50:35,200
you really sort out a lot of the the

1436
00:50:39,109 --> 00:50:37,520
wheat from the chaff kind of thing

1437
00:50:40,710 --> 00:50:39,119
i'd agree i mean don't you think there's

1438
00:50:42,069 --> 00:50:40,720
a lot of similarities and experience

1439
00:50:43,829 --> 00:50:42,079
between different cultures that are

1440
00:50:44,710 --> 00:50:43,839
prevented from being understood through

1441
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:44,720
language

1442
00:50:47,750 --> 00:50:46,480
like a lot of these people have

1443
00:50:50,549 --> 00:50:47,760
spiritual views

1444
00:50:52,230 --> 00:50:50,559
similar to yours and things like that

1445
00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:52,240
they believe in the reincarnation or the

1446
00:50:56,950 --> 00:50:55,040
afterlife or something like that

1447
00:50:58,470 --> 00:50:56,960
absolutely but i guess the other thing

1448
00:50:59,190 --> 00:50:58,480
you know tying it back to what we're

1449
00:51:02,470 --> 00:50:59,200
talking about

1450
00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:02,480
is you have to consider

1451
00:51:06,870 --> 00:51:05,280
the the evil part of it you know because

1452
00:51:07,430 --> 00:51:06,880
the evil part of it is the deceptive

1453
00:51:09,430 --> 00:51:07,440
part of it

1454
00:51:11,510 --> 00:51:09,440
is the how do i gain how do i gain

1455
00:51:11,910 --> 00:51:11,520
control of someone how do i dominate

1456
00:51:13,430 --> 00:51:11,920
someone

1457
00:51:15,270 --> 00:51:13,440
absolutely look at all the religious

1458
00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:15,280
beliefs the teachers here that are

1459
00:51:18,950 --> 00:51:16,720
really popular they're worth

1460
00:51:20,470 --> 00:51:18,960
millions of dollars some of them are

1461
00:51:22,309 --> 00:51:20,480
want time

1462
00:51:23,750 --> 00:51:22,319
like that what was the cult you were

1463
00:51:26,790 --> 00:51:23,760
talking about at the beginning

1464
00:51:30,390 --> 00:51:26,800
which one order of nine angles yeah

1465
00:51:33,589 --> 00:51:30,400
so again it's a mixture of this brew of

1466
00:51:33,990 --> 00:51:33,599
you know these beliefs and then how can

1467
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:34,000
i

1468
00:51:55,589 --> 00:51:52,319
at the

1469
00:51:56,390 --> 00:51:55,599
sex within christianity each one says

1470
00:51:58,309 --> 00:51:56,400
they're correct

1471
00:51:59,829 --> 00:51:58,319
and then they turn the screw the

1472
00:52:01,270 --> 00:51:59,839
catholic church that says we're the only

1473
00:52:02,790 --> 00:52:01,280
true church right

1474
00:52:04,470 --> 00:52:02,800
so how could you believe in anything

1475
00:52:06,470 --> 00:52:04,480
else therefore you got to give us money

1476
00:52:09,670 --> 00:52:06,480
you have to pay for these priests

1477
00:52:11,750 --> 00:52:09,680
and then they engage in the kind of same

1478
00:52:13,430 --> 00:52:11,760
behaviors that christ railed against

1479
00:52:16,630 --> 00:52:13,440
when he was in jerusalem

1480
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:18,470
what you can see is christianity even

1481
00:52:22,069 --> 00:52:20,400
judaism for that matter

1482
00:52:25,430 --> 00:52:22,079
a lot of those things are condemned at

1483
00:52:27,030 --> 00:52:25,440
least by the faith's founder

1484
00:52:28,630 --> 00:52:27,040
i think that even the structure to look

1485
00:52:30,390 --> 00:52:28,640
at christ's teachings of the original

1486
00:52:32,309 --> 00:52:30,400
gospels

1487
00:52:33,589 --> 00:52:32,319
sure she's outside he's talking to

1488
00:52:34,470 --> 00:52:33,599
people in their homes they invite him to

1489
00:52:37,589 --> 00:52:34,480
his place

1490
00:52:38,950 --> 00:52:37,599
really the only religious uh place

1491
00:52:42,150 --> 00:52:38,960
outside the synagogue which he got

1492
00:52:45,270 --> 00:52:42,160
kicked out of was the temple right

1493
00:52:47,190 --> 00:52:45,280
and that end uh

1494
00:52:48,710 --> 00:52:47,200
you know ended disastrously people would

1495
00:52:50,549 --> 00:52:48,720
say that there's no connection between

1496
00:52:53,430 --> 00:52:50,559
the fall of jerusalem

1497
00:52:55,510 --> 00:52:53,440
and christ's death and resurrection but

1498
00:52:57,190 --> 00:52:55,520
i would say that's a direct

1499
00:52:59,349 --> 00:52:57,200
consequence and even kind of prophesied

1500
00:53:01,190 --> 00:52:59,359
that you know no stone upon this place

1501
00:53:02,710 --> 00:53:01,200
will live until we'll be there

1502
00:53:04,390 --> 00:53:02,720
after time i don't remember the direct

1503
00:53:06,710 --> 00:53:04,400
quote but

1504
00:53:08,230 --> 00:53:06,720
um you could make a very good argument

1505
00:53:08,870 --> 00:53:08,240
that the original christianity is taught

1506
00:53:11,910 --> 00:53:08,880
by christ

1507
00:53:15,270 --> 00:53:11,920
was not a kind of churchianity it wasn't

1508
00:53:16,710 --> 00:53:15,280
about these structures but

1509
00:53:18,710 --> 00:53:16,720
like you said i think a lot of these

1510
00:53:20,309 --> 00:53:18,720
people who came after him said oh god i

1511
00:53:22,470 --> 00:53:20,319
have a church we got to have all this

1512
00:53:23,990 --> 00:53:22,480
you got to pay for this and you need to

1513
00:53:25,670 --> 00:53:24,000
have a priest

1514
00:53:27,589 --> 00:53:25,680
so then there's priest craft pastor

1515
00:53:28,790 --> 00:53:27,599
craft and you've got all kinds of

1516
00:53:30,870 --> 00:53:28,800
problems

1517
00:53:31,829 --> 00:53:30,880
and that's what uh i mean my read of all

1518
00:53:34,230 --> 00:53:31,839
that is yeah

1519
00:53:35,990 --> 00:53:34,240
a lot of it came before him too there's

1520
00:53:39,589 --> 00:53:36,000
nothing super special

1521
00:53:40,710 --> 00:53:39,599
about i mean jesus as those teachings

1522
00:53:43,829 --> 00:53:40,720
come through

1523
00:53:46,870 --> 00:53:43,839
are truths our spiritual truths

1524
00:53:49,589 --> 00:53:46,880
and they were always accessible to

1525
00:53:50,710 --> 00:53:49,599
everyone throughout time because we are

1526
00:53:53,190 --> 00:53:50,720
so happy

1527
00:53:55,349 --> 00:53:53,200
we all have a rich spiritual experience

1528
00:53:57,510 --> 00:53:55,359
we all have a connection with the divine

1529
00:53:59,190 --> 00:53:57,520
we can all know what the truth is

1530
00:54:02,309 --> 00:53:59,200
everyone throughout time

1531
00:54:05,430 --> 00:54:02,319
50 000 years ago an aborigine

1532
00:54:06,710 --> 00:54:05,440
on the plains of australia could access

1533
00:54:09,910 --> 00:54:06,720
the same truths

1534
00:54:11,589 --> 00:54:09,920
but they could also access the same it

1535
00:54:13,030 --> 00:54:11,599
seems like and we don't understand any

1536
00:54:15,190 --> 00:54:13,040
of this stuff and i'm not claiming i'm

1537
00:54:18,470 --> 00:54:15,200
doing it's just my conclusion

1538
00:54:21,030 --> 00:54:18,480
they could also access some of the not

1539
00:54:22,870 --> 00:54:21,040
so great things you know and mata zuma's

1540
00:54:23,589 --> 00:54:22,880
on the hill and he's tearing the hearts

1541
00:54:26,309 --> 00:54:23,599
out of people

1542
00:54:26,790 --> 00:54:26,319
right that's before jesus but he's still

1543
00:54:29,190 --> 00:54:26,800
to and

1544
00:54:30,630 --> 00:54:29,200
he's still tapping into that satanic

1545
00:54:33,589 --> 00:54:30,640
energy that says

1546
00:54:34,710 --> 00:54:33,599
destroy conquer dominate all right

1547
00:54:38,230 --> 00:54:34,720
that's a good point

1548
00:54:41,430 --> 00:54:38,240
absolutely okay man totally you've

1549
00:54:42,069 --> 00:54:41,440
undergone the grilling i know i i'm

1550
00:54:43,349 --> 00:54:42,079
kidding

1551
00:54:45,829 --> 00:54:43,359
i appreciate it i don't hear these

1552
00:54:48,069 --> 00:54:45,839
conversations enough well let's do

1553
00:54:49,190 --> 00:54:48,079
do it again let's talk more about i will

1554
00:54:52,789 --> 00:54:49,200
i will come back with

1555
00:54:54,309 --> 00:54:52,799
greater uh proofs that of i need to look

1556
00:54:55,990 --> 00:54:54,319
at the historical proofs but things like

1557
00:54:57,670 --> 00:54:56,000
that but the things that differentiates

1558
00:55:00,950 --> 00:54:57,680
christ's teachings from

1559
00:55:03,829 --> 00:55:00,960
even the other so-called great

1560
00:55:04,870 --> 00:55:03,839
you know teachers of uh wisdom teachers

1561
00:55:07,990 --> 00:55:04,880
whether it's

1562
00:55:11,109 --> 00:55:08,000
you know the buddha

1563
00:55:12,950 --> 00:55:11,119
muhammad supposedly uh

1564
00:55:14,230 --> 00:55:12,960
what is it who was the guy who started

1565
00:55:15,670 --> 00:55:14,240
zora raster

1566
00:55:17,510 --> 00:55:15,680
you know some of these other teachers

1567
00:55:19,670 --> 00:55:17,520
even moses

1568
00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:19,680
yeah but i mean i think really

1569
00:55:22,470 --> 00:55:20,640
ultimately

1570
00:55:23,589 --> 00:55:22,480
if you do agree with that last thing

1571
00:55:25,030 --> 00:55:23,599
that i said and it sounds like you

1572
00:55:26,309 --> 00:55:25,040
generally did

1573
00:55:28,950 --> 00:55:26,319
there's really nothing more to talk

1574
00:55:29,829 --> 00:55:28,960
about i mean it's like the truth is

1575
00:55:31,990 --> 00:55:29,839
there

1576
00:55:33,670 --> 00:55:32,000
the truth is available to everybody the

1577
00:55:34,150 --> 00:55:33,680
truth is certainly available through

1578
00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:34,160
jesus

1579
00:55:37,510 --> 00:55:36,720
christ what i call christ consciousness

1580
00:55:39,990 --> 00:55:37,520
anyone can

1581
00:55:40,950 --> 00:55:40,000
access it it's not it doesn't need to be

1582
00:55:44,390 --> 00:55:40,960
filtered

1583
00:55:47,430 --> 00:55:44,400
through some book if you pray to jesus

1584
00:55:49,990 --> 00:55:47,440
chant the statistics

1585
00:55:50,549 --> 00:55:50,000
four show of five people who genuinely

1586
00:55:54,470 --> 00:55:50,559
pray

1587
00:55:55,430 --> 00:55:54,480
for for help from for jesus to do good

1588
00:55:57,349 --> 00:55:55,440
things

1589
00:55:59,430 --> 00:55:57,359
you know their answer their prayers are

1590
00:56:01,349 --> 00:55:59,440
answered and that you can do good things

1591
00:56:02,230 --> 00:56:01,359
you can be a good person you know it's

1592
00:56:04,470 --> 00:56:02,240
it's not

1593
00:56:06,069 --> 00:56:04,480
and you can be an evil person too and it

1594
00:56:07,349 --> 00:56:06,079
doesn't depend on what you read or

1595
00:56:08,950 --> 00:56:07,359
anything like that it's like you know

1596
00:56:10,309 --> 00:56:08,960
what to do and what not to do i don't

1597
00:56:10,789 --> 00:56:10,319
know it doesn't seem that complicated to

1598
00:56:12,150 --> 00:56:10,799
me

1599
00:56:14,150 --> 00:56:12,160
it's no i'm thinking when you really

1600
00:56:15,589 --> 00:56:14,160
parse it down it's not that complicated

1601
00:56:17,670 --> 00:56:15,599
it really isn't that complicated but

1602
00:56:18,789 --> 00:56:17,680
people make it over overly complicated

1603
00:56:21,990 --> 00:56:18,799
it's very simple

1604
00:56:24,630 --> 00:56:22,000
very simple doctrines yeah so

1605
00:56:26,789 --> 00:56:24,640
i love everyone and tell the truth right

1606
00:56:28,950 --> 00:56:26,799
that's basically it i mean

1607
00:56:31,510 --> 00:56:28,960
i mean everything that the law and

1608
00:56:33,910 --> 00:56:31,520
prophets are based upon

1609
00:56:34,950 --> 00:56:33,920
uh loving your fellow man and loving god

1610
00:56:37,030 --> 00:56:34,960
that's it it was all

1611
00:56:38,950 --> 00:56:37,040
uh christ just distilled it down into

1612
00:56:41,589 --> 00:56:38,960
two simple principles right

1613
00:56:43,109 --> 00:56:41,599
yeah so i mean why you don't have to

1614
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:43,119
overthink it then you can just build on

1615
00:56:45,910 --> 00:56:44,160
that you can talk about first

1616
00:56:46,309 --> 00:56:45,920
corinthians what is love you can talk

1617
00:56:48,710 --> 00:56:46,319
about

1618
00:56:50,309 --> 00:56:48,720
these other explanations of the proper

1619
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:50,319
behavior for the individual but

1620
00:56:55,589 --> 00:56:53,760
uh i mean i just don't see i guess

1621
00:56:57,510 --> 00:56:55,599
i guess the real distinction increase

1622
00:57:01,430 --> 00:56:57,520
like the christian view

1623
00:57:03,030 --> 00:57:01,440
is the primacy of christianity over all

1624
00:57:05,270 --> 00:57:03,040
like it's the pearl of great price and i

1625
00:57:07,270 --> 00:57:05,280
think that people outside of

1626
00:57:08,630 --> 00:57:07,280
christianity have a real problem with

1627
00:57:11,910 --> 00:57:08,640
that they have a i mean

1628
00:57:13,670 --> 00:57:11,920
i would think that they have there's

1629
00:57:15,430 --> 00:57:13,680
more paths to god whereas

1630
00:57:17,430 --> 00:57:15,440
like christ says i am the way the truth

1631
00:57:18,950 --> 00:57:17,440
and the light so i think that that's

1632
00:57:20,710 --> 00:57:18,960
really a lot of the people who are

1633
00:57:23,109 --> 00:57:20,720
outside of

1634
00:57:24,470 --> 00:57:23,119
that very very very wide tent of

1635
00:57:25,589 --> 00:57:24,480
christianity really have a problem

1636
00:57:27,270 --> 00:57:25,599
[Music]

1637
00:57:28,870 --> 00:57:27,280
well you could turn it around and say i

1638
00:57:29,910 --> 00:57:28,880
think that's the problem that christians

1639
00:57:32,390 --> 00:57:29,920
have

1640
00:57:33,190 --> 00:57:32,400
right right i mean if you can't if

1641
00:57:36,309 --> 00:57:33,200
you're a christian

1642
00:57:40,150 --> 00:57:36,319
and you can't see that there's

1643
00:57:41,270 --> 00:57:40,160
unlimited paths to god then

1644
00:57:43,430 --> 00:57:41,280
i'm though i don't i don't know how

1645
00:57:44,950 --> 00:57:43,440
you're reading the data it's fact like

1646
00:57:47,270 --> 00:57:44,960
i just don't like i said go read the

1647
00:57:48,789 --> 00:57:47,280
near death experience accounts

1648
00:57:50,789 --> 00:57:48,799
go read the near death experience

1649
00:57:52,829 --> 00:57:50,799
accounts and go tell me those people

1650
00:57:54,789 --> 00:57:52,839
aren't having genuine spiritual

1651
00:57:56,309 --> 00:57:54,799
experiences i would say off the top that

1652
00:57:56,950 --> 00:57:56,319
they are having genuine spirits well

1653
00:57:58,549 --> 00:57:56,960
then if they're

1654
00:58:00,230 --> 00:57:58,559
in and then they're a lot but i like

1655
00:58:01,510 --> 00:58:00,240
i've interviewed like i've

1656
00:58:03,829 --> 00:58:01,520
interviewed a ton of people like one guy

1657
00:58:05,430 --> 00:58:03,839
interviewed was that ian mccormick and

1658
00:58:06,710 --> 00:58:05,440
he had a unbelievable near-death

1659
00:58:08,470 --> 00:58:06,720
experience i mean this guy was dead for

1660
00:58:11,190 --> 00:58:08,480
like he was in the morgue

1661
00:58:12,470 --> 00:58:11,200
in uh in this little island you know he

1662
00:58:16,069 --> 00:58:12,480
was swimming he got

1663
00:58:17,349 --> 00:58:16,079
stung by box fish deadly and he was in

1664
00:58:19,270 --> 00:58:17,359
their little makeshift moor

1665
00:58:20,710 --> 00:58:19,280
work for like seven hours he had this

1666
00:58:23,030 --> 00:58:20,720
experience and he saw jesus

1667
00:58:24,549 --> 00:58:23,040
christ consciousness fantastic but he

1668
00:58:25,510 --> 00:58:24,559
comes back he goes around to churches

1669
00:58:27,910 --> 00:58:25,520
all over the world

1670
00:58:29,349 --> 00:58:27,920
says hey near-death experience is real

1671
00:58:30,870 --> 00:58:29,359
there's an afterlife but let me tell you

1672
00:58:31,430 --> 00:58:30,880
if you don't see jesus you didn't really

1673
00:58:34,069 --> 00:58:31,440
have one

1674
00:58:36,150 --> 00:58:34,079
it was satan faking you it's like [\h__\h]

1675
00:58:38,230 --> 00:58:36,160
you ian you're so full of [\h__\h] that's

1676
00:58:41,910 --> 00:58:38,240
just a stupid interpretation of the data

1677
00:58:44,710 --> 00:58:41,920
it's just as crazy and as cultish as

1678
00:58:45,990 --> 00:58:44,720
you know damian eccles sitting around

1679
00:58:48,309 --> 00:58:46,000
thinking that you know

1680
00:58:50,309 --> 00:58:48,319
the antichrist is the way to go for you

1681
00:58:51,990 --> 00:58:50,319
know it's just stupid

1682
00:58:54,069 --> 00:58:52,000
and and that's what gets me about the

1683
00:58:55,589 --> 00:58:54,079
the christian thing if you can't see

1684
00:58:57,349 --> 00:58:55,599
that it's all about love everyone and

1685
00:58:59,349 --> 00:58:57,359
tell the truth so oh of course

1686
00:59:03,670 --> 00:58:59,359
anyone can get there by doing that then

1687
00:59:07,030 --> 00:59:05,349
you playing it's exclusive if you think

1688
00:59:09,910 --> 00:59:07,040
it's exclusive i don't know

1689
00:59:10,950 --> 00:59:09,920
how you you fit that with the data yeah

1690
00:59:15,510 --> 00:59:10,960
i don't

1691
00:59:18,710 --> 00:59:17,990
yeah i think within christianity or you

1692
00:59:21,910 --> 00:59:18,720
know the view

1693
00:59:23,510 --> 00:59:21,920
is is that the outs the

1694
00:59:24,950 --> 00:59:23,520
people outside of it aren't going to

1695
00:59:26,950 --> 00:59:24,960
obtain the same

1696
00:59:28,710 --> 00:59:26,960
blessings and benefits of being inside

1697
00:59:31,750 --> 00:59:28,720
that wide tent

1698
00:59:31,990 --> 00:59:31,760
but that's silly that's silly right i i

1699
00:59:35,030 --> 00:59:32,000
mean

1700
00:59:38,390 --> 00:59:35,040
look at all the people who lived and

1701
00:59:39,910 --> 00:59:38,400
passed away prior to the advent of

1702
00:59:41,589 --> 00:59:39,920
christ and look at how many people had

1703
00:59:44,069 --> 00:59:41,599
not heard the gospel

1704
00:59:44,950 --> 00:59:44,079
it's hard for me to believe that there

1705
00:59:48,230 --> 00:59:44,960
there there's

1706
00:59:48,710 --> 00:59:48,240
no it's not for me to believe that those

1707
00:59:50,789 --> 00:59:48,720
people

1708
00:59:52,630 --> 00:59:50,799
are there's not some kind of spiritual

1709
00:59:55,750 --> 00:59:52,640
address from them

1710
00:59:56,950 --> 00:59:55,760
from god you know william what's coming

1711
00:59:57,910 --> 00:59:56,960
up for you what are you gonna what are

1712
01:00:00,150 --> 00:59:57,920
you doing

1713
01:00:01,589 --> 01:00:00,160
i'm just i'm just exhausted i've been

1714
01:00:04,870 --> 01:00:01,599
working on a project so i'm hoping to

1715
01:00:07,109 --> 01:00:04,880
get it done within the next week but uh

1716
01:00:08,710 --> 01:00:07,119
william ramsey investigates a william

1717
01:00:09,430 --> 01:00:08,720
ramsey investigates project or some

1718
01:00:12,470 --> 01:00:09,440
other video yes

1719
01:00:14,950 --> 01:00:12,480
yeah well good proper 400 page book

1720
01:00:16,390 --> 01:00:14,960
really yeah see i pumped you at the

1721
01:00:17,270 --> 01:00:16,400
beginning for what book you're working

1722
01:00:18,950 --> 01:00:17,280
on you really keep

1723
01:00:21,910 --> 01:00:18,960
you keep it under your hat that much huh

1724
01:00:23,510 --> 01:00:21,920
you don't yeah you have to

1725
01:00:26,309 --> 01:00:23,520
yeah why why do you have to because your

1726
01:00:27,990 --> 01:00:26,319
publisher your publisher requires no

1727
01:00:29,829 --> 01:00:28,000
no no there's all kinds of problems

1728
01:00:32,309 --> 01:00:29,839
people steal your ideas and there's

1729
01:00:33,910 --> 01:00:32,319
you know people crying and stuff oh yeah

1730
01:00:36,549 --> 01:00:33,920
oh man

1731
01:00:37,349 --> 01:00:36,559
very cool i'll tell you stories off

1732
01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:37,359
great okay

1733
01:00:41,510 --> 01:00:38,880
it's kind of like a small little

1734
01:00:41,990 --> 01:00:41,520
community so people are always saying

1735
01:00:43,750 --> 01:00:42,000
this is my

1736
01:00:46,150 --> 01:00:43,760
idea i came up with this let it be known

1737
01:00:49,910 --> 01:00:46,160
i came up with some mistake

1738
01:00:51,349 --> 01:00:49,920
wow but but so so the the inside the

1739
01:00:54,150 --> 01:00:51,359
inside word is

1740
01:00:55,910 --> 01:00:54,160
kind of keep keep your eye on william

1741
01:00:57,030 --> 01:00:55,920
ramsay investigates because something

1742
01:00:59,910 --> 01:00:57,040
big is coming huh

1743
01:01:01,270 --> 01:00:59,920
well hopefully well we'll see things are

1744
01:01:03,030 --> 01:01:01,280
very interesting things are happening

1745
01:01:05,430 --> 01:01:03,040
there's no question about it

1746
01:01:07,510 --> 01:01:05,440
playing it close to the best i love

1747
01:01:08,950 --> 01:01:07,520
always you always have to keep the cards

1748
01:01:12,950 --> 01:01:08,960
close to the chest right

1749
01:01:14,150 --> 01:01:12,960
now right right on hey uh william thanks

1750
01:01:18,549 --> 01:01:14,160
again

1751
01:01:20,470 --> 01:01:18,559
of william ramsey investigates

1752
01:01:22,549 --> 01:01:20,480
be sure to check out his website because

1753
01:01:23,030 --> 01:01:22,559
i just told you he's got something good

1754
01:01:25,670 --> 01:01:23,040
coming

1755
01:01:27,270 --> 01:01:25,680
i kind of have a feeling it relates to

1756
01:01:28,630 --> 01:01:27,280
something that we might have talked

1757
01:01:29,750 --> 01:01:28,640
about but i don't want to push him any

1758
01:01:32,950 --> 01:01:29,760
further because

1759
01:01:34,630 --> 01:01:32,960
he's not saying might be it might be but

1760
01:01:35,430 --> 01:01:34,640
well i think i think it'll go with the

1761
01:01:38,549 --> 01:01:35,440
theme

1762
01:01:40,710 --> 01:01:38,559
there's things under the surface that uh

1763
01:01:42,950 --> 01:01:40,720
you know people might not be aware of

1764
01:01:44,710 --> 01:01:42,960
microleism or

1765
01:01:46,150 --> 01:01:44,720
some other these other kind of modern

1766
01:01:47,670 --> 01:01:46,160
currents that are actually pretty

1767
01:01:50,870 --> 01:01:47,680
dangerous

1768
01:01:52,789 --> 01:01:50,880
very very intriguing william as always

1769
01:01:54,230 --> 01:01:52,799
it's just so awesome talking to you and

1770
01:01:55,349 --> 01:01:54,240
i really appreciate what you're doing

1771
01:01:55,990 --> 01:01:55,359
out there and i appreciate you having

1772
01:01:58,230 --> 01:01:56,000
this

1773
01:01:59,750 --> 01:01:58,240
kind of open-ended conversation yeah any

1774
01:02:01,349 --> 01:01:59,760
time

1775
01:02:03,029 --> 01:02:01,359
my pleasure great to talk with you alex

1776
01:02:04,950 --> 01:02:03,039
take care

1777
01:02:07,029 --> 01:02:04,960
thanks again to william ramsey for

1778
01:02:09,190 --> 01:02:07,039
joining me today on skeptico the one

1779
01:02:11,190 --> 01:02:09,200
the only question to tee up from this

1780
01:02:16,390 --> 01:02:11,200
episode

1781
01:02:20,349 --> 01:02:18,829
this is a topic particularly the roman

1782
01:02:23,270 --> 01:02:20,359
josephus

1783
01:02:24,309 --> 01:02:23,280
conspiratorial parapolitical part of

1784
01:02:27,349 --> 01:02:24,319
this

1785
01:02:28,950 --> 01:02:27,359
that has really really grabbed my

1786
01:02:32,390 --> 01:02:28,960
attention so

1787
01:02:32,789 --> 01:02:32,400
i have a number of shows coming up on

1788
01:02:38,870 --> 01:02:32,799
this

1789
01:02:41,510 --> 01:02:38,880
in the way that it interests me then hey

1790
01:02:44,150 --> 01:02:41,520
you got some good content coming up

1791
01:02:46,549 --> 01:02:44,160
if not you might be taking a little

1792
01:02:49,029 --> 01:02:46,559
break from skeptico for a while

1793
01:02:49,910 --> 01:02:49,039
but i do hope you stick around until